Print Story The olympics are dropping wrestling?!?!??
By gzt (Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 04:17:54 PM EST) gzt, peasants, thug life, picking up heavy things, students (all tags)
Like, 29 different countries won medals in the last Olympics, it's truly international.

It's one of the original sports.

Almost every high school in America has a wrestling program.

It's really cheap and easy to do wrestling no matter where you're from: clear off some ground, take off some clothes, and get grabbing.

This doesn't make any sense.

I'm kind of trying to lose a little weight by working harder and not eating more than I was before. The result so far is that I'm hungry a lot and I'm feeling less awesome during my workouts, so I guess it's working. I've had to cut back volume, so I typically squat a heavy single around 405 and then do a lighter set, then bench or press something, then deadlift or clean around 405/200ish respectively, then go home. I also put up a pullup bar at home and do pullups throughout the day. Or negatives. Or just holds. Enough to keep me strong and get some activity, not enough to drive me into the ground because I'm not eating enough. Maybe I'll walk to campus occasionally on nice days, too.

The pope is stepping down. I think it's wise to do it while he's still able to do the job. It's good to realize that they don't all need to go out like JPII.

Speaking of which, was Big Tobacco behind Pope Urban VII's sudden and untimely death from "malaria" (bad air)? He instituted a smoking ban during his short 13 day reign as pope. This cannot be a coincidence. It's turtles all the way down.

Politics are still politics. Somebody recently suggested Texas is an economic model for other states and a good example of Republican economics in action, but I highly doubt it. I do grant their point that California and Illinois show some downfalls of Democrat Party control of state legislatures. But TX to me looks miserable.

We watched Trial of a Time Lord and now we're on to McCoy-era Doctor Who and Ace.

We started watching Community recently and are all caught up. Interesting read.

Somebody recently made an interesting assertion in a facebook conversation. They said that government was invented solely for the protection of property. They also strongly implied that this was also still one of its only legitimate purposes. The man was, of course, a libertarian. I am wondering just how wrong this is in terms of anthropological history, historical political science, and whatever. It sounds like one of those things economists say that's either false or true in a "yes, but so what, that doesn't tell us anything useful" way.

I'm kind of getting tired of these students not reading directions, not remembering this week how to do what we did both of the last two weeks, not reading the solutions... At least they don't come in during office hours so I can get some work done, write some diaries...

Politics are bad right now: polling suggests that a majority of Republicans support a path to citizenship, but not when Obama's name is attached. Of course, conversely, a majority of Democrats approve of Obama's military ventures and torture, but not when Obama's name isn't attached. It's a double-edged sword. But, on the other hand, it is somewhat reasonable to think that, while I might be a fan of policy X, politician Y might mean something different by it and muck it up, so I'm not in favor of his implementation of X.

But, really, our addiction to cheap fossil fuel energy is stealing from our children in three ways: they will no longer have these cheap sources of fuel because we used them up, they will not have cheap alternatives because we refused to develop them, and then of course there's the unfathomable cost of climate change that we're going to saddle them with. And yet people seem to think that present expenditure on mitigating these effects is somehow robbing from our children or something because we're running a deficit. These people are funded by the oil lobby or are peasants whose opinions don't actually matter.

We watched Le quai des Orfevres this weekend on our French movie night. The ending was surprising. I think that does it for Clouzot - he has a few other films we haven't seen, but I don't have them and they aren't well rated.

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The olympics are dropping wrestling?!?!?? | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden)
running out by the mariner (2.00 / 0) #1 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:03:26 PM EST
it sounds to me like there's still a huge amount of oil, gas, and coal out there and plenty of fuel for nuclear power generation if it comes to that. and don't you think all the blizzards and winter heat waves are kind of fun?

also, wrestling sucks.

there should be an asterisk by gzt (2.00 / 0) #2 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 05:19:15 PM EST
instead of "running out", "coming to the sudden realization that we can't use fossil fuel anymore". but we will run out eventually, too, if we don't stop.

i'm fine with nukes, of course.

wrestling sucks, but so do those other sports.

[ Parent ]
i don't have a tv, so i don't watch the olympics by the mariner (2.00 / 0) #10 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:27:37 PM EST
given the horseshit they pulled last time re: interweb streaming, i don't think i'll ever watch them again. so i guess i don't care anyway.

i don't see why americans would come to the conclusion that we can no longer use fossil fuels in the near future. we don't have a serious pollution problem and we don't believe in global warming. we're at a stage where the only thing likely to make a difference on the climate change front is some kind of crazy engineering feat like trees that grow as fast as bamboo or cloning of prehistoric megaferns anyway.

[ Parent ]
i'm thinking 30-50 years. by gzt (2.00 / 0) #11 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 09:36:29 PM EST
it will be hard to deny then.

but, yeah, i don't really watch the olympics, either.

[ Parent ]
but society will have collapsed by then. by the mariner (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 01:09:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
We're not gonna run out by Driusan (4.00 / 1) #12 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 10:02:27 PM EST
Global warming will kill us all before it gets to that, and then our corpses will replenish the fossil fuel stores for the next species to come along.

Vive le Montréal libre.
[ Parent ]
government was invented solely by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #3 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:25:56 PM EST
Don't tell me, but I think you are dealing with someone who believes in "American exceptionalism" without question and probably thinks that history began no earlier than the Elizabethan era.

I don't think the Pharaohs considered protection of any non-Pharonic property all that important, nor do I remember much of the pyramid art detailing the importance of protecting property among the deeds of the Pharaoh. Plenty of tax collecting, irrigation control and farm supervising.

As far as the Olympics goes, I don't think the TV revenue and cross-licensing is all that high, I guess it had limped along due to high levels of bribes available for fixing matches. I thought it still was huge in eastern (read Russia and other mid-Asian areas) parts. They might as well drop the "Olympic" name though, wrestling was pretty much the main event in the ancient Greek sports. Just call it "IOC's corporate sponsored rigged exhibition".


Not sure by gzt (2.00 / 0) #5 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:24:49 PM EST
Didn't query further. I think he's just a straight out libertarian hard core, doesn't think much about actual history.

I think in Egypt they would then argue that, yes, government is for the protection of the Pharaoh's property and that irrigation control and farm supervision were all about maintaining Pharonic property. At which point, it becomes , "yes, but who cares?"

Wrestling is big everywhere, pretty much. Like I mentioned, 29 different countries won medals in the last Olympics. That's a lot. I heard there's some IOC business going down, some guy who talked to a guy on the Canadian wrestling scene said it had to do with the IOC wanting more women's classes and getting rid of Greco-Roman or something, but wrestling didn't want either (talent pool is too small to subdivide further into weight classes, no way getting rid of GR), so IOC just decided to dick them.

[ Parent ]
I see ... by Scrymarch (2.00 / 0) #4 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 06:36:09 PM EST
"Wrestling is now fighting for a single place as an additional sport in 2020 against squash, roller sports, softball/baseball, karate, the martial art wushu, the water sport wakeboard and sport climbing."

Iambic Web Certified

please no squash, please no squash by yankeehack (2.00 / 0) #20 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:22:30 AM EST
we don't need another Olympic sport for the idle rich to worry their little heads off about.

LO wanted to try out for squash this year, but the competition is so intense at her school they were planning cuts for the novice team.
"...she dares to indulge in the secret sport. You can't be a MILF with the F, at least in part because the M is predicated upon it."-CBB

[ Parent ]
After by Scrymarch (2.00 / 0) #25 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 06:34:29 PM EST
A rush of popularity 30-40 years ago, squash basically died off in Australia. It's quite popular in India though. Most of these changes are probably initially meant to reached international audiences - amusing result given the popularity of wrestling across a number of countries.

Iambic Web Certified

[ Parent ]
any sole purpose allegation by aphrael (4.00 / 1) #6 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:50:18 PM EST
strikes me as being per se ahistorical. there might have been a dominant purpose, a primary purpose, what have you - but when has any group of people ever done anything for a single irreducible purpose?
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
TX has good things and bad things by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #7 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 07:54:12 PM EST
and I think that's pretty much the case everywhere.

But Texas desperately needs a new governor.

The case I would make by theboz (2.00 / 0) #13 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 10:17:41 PM EST
Texas has some great powerhouse cities, surrounded by essentially third world conditions in the countryside.  If someone is in Texas and doesn't stray too far from the cities or the interstate, Texas looks like a much better place than if you live in the majority of the state.  However, the severe imbalance makes life much better for those of us who live in the cities and essentially exploit the poor areas of the for cheap food and labor.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]
Isn't The Olympics The Company That Makes Audis? by CheeseburgerBrown (2.00 / 0) #8 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:38:04 PM EST
I guess I lack planet spirit or something but I haven't been able to abide the reported Olympiad for a while now. Too many graphics. Too much banter. Too many commercials, and too much trouble telling what was a commercial and what wasn't.

Dropping wrestling, with all its Hellenic roots and classical ballyhoo, is really just icing on the cake. What do these jerks know from Olympics? Feh!

I guess if I want to see naked Greeks wrestle I'll just have to go to Greece. Or rent a porno.
Science-fiction wallah, storytelling gorilla, man wearing a hat: Cheeseburger Brown.

kind of what i think, too by gzt (2.00 / 0) #9 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 08:53:02 PM EST
the expense is ridiculous. i was quite happy chicago (while i lived there) did not get an olympic bid. at the very least because it ends up being a case of local government subsidizing private enterprise in a way that does not accrue sufficient economic benefit to the city.

[ Parent ]
Olympic wrestling by theboz (2.00 / 0) #14 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 10:19:26 PM EST
I don't understand why wrestling is out, but Judo is still in.  Isn't Judo basically the Taekwondo form of wrestling?
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That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
also by gzt (2.00 / 0) #15 Tue Feb 12, 2013 at 10:30:26 PM EST
the olympics essentially defined modern wrestling and its rules. it created the sport.

judo, it essentially ruined it. still, it has a long pedigree in the olympics.

TKD is just BS. they wear all these pads and it's not really international.

[ Parent ]
Government invented to protect property by TheophileEscargot (4.00 / 1) #17 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 09:29:17 AM EST
This is one of those annoying assertions which are basically unsupported fluff, but in such a complex area it's impossible to disprove either. (c.f. "The Roman Empire fell because of my pet issue").

Problem is we don't have much information on the first city-based societies to say what exactly their government did, since they often didn't have writing that survives. One counterexample might be the beveled rim bowls of Mesopotamia, which seem to have been a standard size for use as ration bowls. The rulers seem to have controlled the grain supply and literally dished out specified amounts to the people.

Another point is that a lot of early civilizations had a religious government led by a god-king or a priest-king. So they certainly had other responsibilites than protecting property, they had to keep the Nile flooding, keep on good terms with the other gods, prevent droughts and plagues and so on.

A non-city-based counteraxample might be the Yanomamö people of Amazonia. When anthropologist Napoleon Chagnon started working amongst them, he tried to take a supply of food with him. However he found the Yanomamö tended to eat it all: not because they thought they were "stealing" it, but because they assumed all food belonged to the tribe.

Olympic wrestling: I have a feeling it's more popular in the US than elsewhere. In the UK I've never heard of a school wrestling programme, or known anyone who's done it. Of course there are loads of unpopular Olympic sports for which the same goes.
It is unlikely that the good of a snail should reside in its shell: so is it likely that the good of a man should?

Wrestling popularity by ks1178 (4.00 / 1) #19 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 10:12:42 AM EST
While it's quite popular in the US, it's also very popular in Russia (and former parts of USSR like Azerbaijan, Georgia, Aremenia, Uzbekistan), Eastern Europe, the middle east (Turkey and Iran), and Japan. But total there were 22 countries that placed in the olympics this year in wrestling, and 71 that sent people to the olympics.

And it's one of the few sports, that's not dominated by a single or even a few countries. But in a few countries it's there #1 sport. And there's been a pretty loud outcry from those countries as well (Iran, Azerbaijan, Russia, India, Japan) in the news. 

[ Parent ]
apparently... by gzt (2.00 / 0) #26 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 09:34:22 PM EST
...every session of wrestling in London sold out. that can't be said for a lot of other sports.

[ Parent ]
Not sure by TheophileEscargot (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 04:48:26 AM EST
Theoretically everything except football sold out well in advance, but in practice there were empty seats because lots of people with free corporate and "Olympic Family" tickets didn't bother to show.
It is unlikely that the good of a snail should reside in its shell: so is it likely that the good of a man should?
[ Parent ]
IIRC, that was Rousseau's social contract by lm (4.00 / 1) #18 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 09:39:46 AM EST
If I remember correctly, Rousseau thought the origin of the social contract was a trick played by those who had property on those who didn't, ``Hey, guys, if you agree to protect our stuff, we'll agree to protect your stuff.'' Not realizing that this effectively cemented the relationship between those who have and those who have not, those who had not readily agreed because they didn't want anyone taking away their stuff that they didn't have.

A more likely just-so story is that government evolved out of gangs of thugs. Augustine could be argued to be the first to put this theory forth seriously. (Although, I think Augustine was arguing more that there is no difference between government and a gang of thugs more than arguing that that this was origin of government.) And quite a few contemporary thinkers kind of have this in the back of their mind, e.g. John Finis arguing that we shouldn't really look too closely into the origins of the law because we won't like what we find and the very enterprise will delegitimize the law in the minds of the masses.

But I think most anthropologists think that government evolved out of extended families. A family group turns into a clan. Mores and traditions develop to keep the peace. The idea of authority develops over time. And it isn't all that long before something that looks very much like government develops.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
IANAA, but by nathan (4.00 / 1) #22 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:13:18 PM EST
I think most anthropologists think that government evolved out of extended families.

I thought that this was the dominant theory of the emergence of the polis after the Greek dark ages? I also read someplace that "basileus" could be traced etymologically to a word meaning "head of household" or some such.

[ Parent ]
The oldest forms of basileus by lm (2.00 / 0) #24 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 03:00:54 PM EST
... generally indicated something more like a chieftain or warlord than a king. In Mycenaean times, the king (or tribal lord) was referred to as anax rather than as basileus.

The word could also indicate the head of a household depending on context and which era of antiquity you're talking about.

The formation of the classical Greek polis after the Greek dark ages is a really interesting era. But at the time, they still had cultural memory of Mycenaean times. The idea of government wasn't something new but something renewed.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Depends on what you call "government" by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #21 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 11:53:36 AM EST
The first tribal leaders were probably there to coordinate hunting.

In agricultural societies, one of the prime purposes of the "government" was to force some to labor so all could eat.
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

government was invented to oversee beer production by the mariner (4.00 / 2) #23 Wed Feb 13, 2013 at 12:31:53 PM EST
think about it: if you're a hunter-gatherer living in a sparsely populated area with tons of animals and vegetation everywhere and social organization somewhere between modern lions and gibbons, why the hell would you decide to get together with twenty other nearby tribes and set up farms instead of just killing things and eating nuts and berries?

the obvious answer is that farming allows you to produce something in quantity that you can't as a hunter-gatherer. something better than a handful of seeds: fermented beverages. farming and brewing is a major undertaking involving a lot of coordinated effort, processing of grain, and distribution of the product according to some equitable arrangement, so nontrivial administration comes into the picture, hence government, civilization, etc.

tragically, in the thousands of years since its inception, government has veered off the rails and involved itself areas in which it has no natural expertise.

Feeling less awesome... by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #28 Thu Feb 14, 2013 at 10:42:38 AM EST
It's really cheap and easy to do wrestling no matter where you're from: clear off some ground, take off some clothes, and get grabbing.

Yeah, I remember doing a lot of that kind of wrestling in high school.... Wait. You mean the sport don't you?

I'm kind of trying to lose a little weight by working harder and not eating more than I was before. The result so far is that I'm hungry a lot and I'm feeling less awesome during my workouts, so I guess it's working.

I hate that. I could always tell the diet was working when I'd get light-headed and dizzy trying to use the Bowflex. These days it's pretty much become impossible for me to actually diet - not physically, but emotionally. I can't work up the required levels of self-loathing to do something that mostly makes me feel miserable and tired.

An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
The olympics are dropping wrestling?!?!?? | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden)