Print Story Man, The Worm Ouroboros is awesome
By gzt (Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 04:05:06 PM EST) gzt, work, vegetables, supertraining, the worm ouroboros (all tags)
I'm all enrolled for classes and stuff. And paid and everything. My employer will reimburse me after I pass the classes. In the meantime, my credit card will reward me.

This man is fairly bright and knows what he's talking about. He wrote two great trollish posts this week, one on a subject I mentioned in previous diaries, one on why most of what people commonly think about weight training (which has been filtered down from crappy advice from "bodybuilders") is stupid. Hilarious. It's trolling, but it's true. Ooh, and one of his old posts mentions the Dunning-Kruger effect...

Seriously, guys, The Worm Ouroboros is great. I usually don't like it when modern books slip in some archaic old-timey dialogue, but this book is so skillfully written that you don't notice it except to think that it really fits in.

I watched Shatner reading things last night. I enjoyed it when Sarah Palin came on and read excerpts from Shatner's autobiography. Shatner: kind of cool sometimes. But he wants to envelop the mountain.

I went to Target by bus last night to return something and buy something. It took half an hour. I am 10 blocks directly north from Target, but there is no way to get there easily by public transit. You have to go a couple miles east by train and then ride a bus back west. On the way back, I decided to screw it and just walk back. It's about the same amount of time and it was a nice night, though I was carrying a new trash can.

There are few things that everybody agrees on, nutritionally. One of them is that you should eat a substantial breakfast. Another is that you should eat plenty of fruits and vegetables. Nobody does either of these. Except for champions.

I find it hard to care about work.

< I got nothing, no book reviews, no movie reviews | Let me say this. >
Man, The Worm Ouroboros is awesome | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 hidden)
Not everyone agrees about breakfast by lm (2.00 / 0) #1 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 04:38:18 PM EST
There are some conditions under which breakfast is important. I suspect that folks that want to get seventies big need a good breakfast. But unless I've gone running or hit the gym to start my day, I don't generally start to feel hungry until noon or later. Saturdays and Sundays, I frequently won't eat anything until 1pm or later. If I wasn't exercising before work on the weekdays, I'd probably do the same.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
By everybody.... by gzt (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 04:45:53 PM EST
...I mean nutrition experts and your mother.

[ Parent ]
your wrong on both counts, then by lm (2.00 / 0) #3 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 05:33:05 PM EST
Unless by `nutrition experts' you mean `some nutrition experts' or you're qualifying your statements to children. The most recent studies I've seen suggest that, provided you control for alcohol abuse, smoking, lack of sleep and other behaviors that are commonly found in those who are likely to skip breakfast, that it its no big deal to not eat breakfast provided one has a balanced diet that contains sufficient nutrients.

Granted, if you're trying to eat 5k calories every day, skipping breakfast makes it hard. And if you're exercising in the morning, it is important to eat afterwards (and depending on the exercise, it may also be important to eat before).

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
The American Dietetic Association by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #4 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 06:05:49 PM EST
disagrees with you. I'd take their word over yours.
[ Parent ]
They would count as `some nutrition experts' by lm (2.00 / 0) #5 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 06:41:05 PM EST
I would even concede that `most nutrition experts' disagree with me. But they tend to extrapolate to adults from studies done on children and don't typically control for behaviors commonly associated with skipping breakfast such as smoking, alcoholism, lack of exercise, etc. Some do. But there is not a universal consensus and the consensus as it exists is largely formed from work done on children and adolescents.

I would refer you to Maureen Timlin and Mark Pereira,``Breakfast Frequency and Quality in the Etiology of Adult Obesity and Chronic Diseases,'' Nutrition Reviews, 65 (2007), 268-281. In an overview of the existing studies, the money quote is, ``Only four relatively small and short-term randomized trials have examined breakfast consumption and body weight or chronic disease risk, with mixed results. Large, long-term, randomized trials are needed.''

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
What's your point? by ad hoc (2.00 / 0) #6 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 06:59:12 PM EST
That you found one study that backs your statement? Or that 40 years of research is bunk?

Find me one issue which has "universal" consensus.

[ Parent ]
There's a small summary by TheophileEscargot (2.00 / 0) #8 Sat Jan 16, 2010 at 03:24:28 AM EST
Here. As I understand it:

1. There's reasonable evidence that if you make people eat breakfast, they do better on mental tests than if you make them skip it. So, that's a reason to eat breakfast.

2. There is a weak correlation between people who are overweight, and people who skip breakfast. That doesn't prove causation: as lm says there might be common factors that cause both, or they might be underreporting. (It could be that people who are poor planners or impulse driven tend to be both overweight and more likely to wake up without milk for their cornflakes). But it's reasonable, if not proven, to think that there may be a psychological effect there: if you try to diet by skipping breakfast, you're likely to end up eating more calories than you skipped later on in the day.

However, there's a widespread myth that your body somehow absorbs food differently at different times of the day. Many diet fads are based around that. But there seems to be no scientific evidence for it. The human digestive system is very efficient at absorbing energy. It never knows which calorie might be the last one before the big famine, so it painstakingly stores each one away, whatever the time of day.
It is unlikely that the good of a snail should reside in its shell: so is it likely that the good of a man should?

[ Parent ]
time of day based dietting by garlic (2.00 / 0) #13 Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 09:41:11 AM EST
always seems like bunk to me. I'm biased towards the body as an efficient machine hypothesis though.

[ Parent ]
I'm not really interested in consensus by lm (2.00 / 0) #9 Sat Jan 16, 2010 at 09:50:24 AM EST
First, gzt made a categorial statement. I was providing counter-examples.

Second, I'm more interested in is understanding why experts make the claims that they do than what claims they actually make. I've pointed out several times why I think that the conventional wisdom is wrong (or at least unfounded) outside of certain cases. All I've heard from you is `the experts say your wrong' with no evaluation of why they say I'm wrong.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
One additional point by lm (2.00 / 0) #10 Sat Jan 16, 2010 at 09:54:21 AM EST
There is a large body of research done on children and adolescents.

There is very little research done on adults.

So your `40 years of research is bunk' statement is irrelevant because there isn't really 40 years of research.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
no breakfast for you. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #11 Sat Jan 16, 2010 at 09:19:22 PM EST
But unless I've gone running or hit the gym to start my day, I don't generally start to feel hungry until noon or later.

me too.

sometimes i'm hungry at 10, but usually not; then between noon and one i flip a switch and am ravenous.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
hail to the king, baby. by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Jan 15, 2010 at 08:13:22 PM EST
now, alas, my diversity of fruits and veggies might be lacking, but always 4+ servings a day.. (typically 3-4 fruit, and 1-2 vegetable..).. And breakfast is a must, even if it's 95% of the time cereal.

10 whole blocks? by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #12 Sun Jan 17, 2010 at 04:05:27 AM EST

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

10 chicago blocks by garlic (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Jan 20, 2010 at 09:43:08 AM EST
presuming he was only counting 100 numbers in a block, is 1.25 miles. If he was only counting major streets, then it was probably closer to 3-4 miles.

[ Parent ]
Man, The Worm Ouroboros is awesome | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 hidden)