Print Story Ask Husi: Is it child abuse to expose a tween to the Wheel of Time?
By georgeha (Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 04:24:08 AM EST) swords, sorcery, geeks, housewives (all tags)
Plus, I like Gabi, the Baltic Dry Index is up, good score at Goodwill (including Cassino), too long a Twilight Zone, my daughter the jock and less in the swords and sorcery themed diary!

Poll: Favorite D&D module?

Update [2009-3-12 10:34:28 by georgeha]:Monster Manual stuff

Twelve year old occasionally complains of nothing to read. I suggested Tolkien several times, but she never picked it up, and I suppose it may not be as interesting to a girl as it was to an awkward tweenage boy, there's few strong female characters in it. I suppose I can hand her my copy of The Eye of the World, how knows how she'll take it. She'll probably bring it up in therapy a few decades hence.

In other twelve year old girl news, we went to the Winter Sports banquet, and I got to meet a few of her swim team friends. Twelve year old is not the only one who likes to wear ripped jeans over leggings, topped with an Aeropostale sweatshirt. It was a new experience to me, having avoided sports as well as I could in school (I was in band though!). I finally saw her coach, and the teams mostly sat together. The bowling teams were easily the funkiest. It seems like her school is most competitive in girls' hoops, bowling and swimming. The catered dinner was okay, nothing special.  I was glad they made mentioned GPA's when the coaches were discussing the teams, my daughter's teams' is 3.77.

In other child news, seven year old has a school expedition tonight. I charged up the camera batteries this morning, and it will be another early exit, and tuna subs for dinner to get there on time.

While we were out stimulating the economy on Sunday (beside the usual gas, bills and groceries) we went to Goodwill. I was bemoaning my poor gaming luck at thrift stores (well, I did get a 1971 Acquire for 50 cents, which I resold for $50, and a copy of Enchanted Forest missing a few cards) when I found a copy of Guillotine, for $2.99. It was a blue price tag, half off, so it was only $1.50. I also found a copy of Krugman's Peddling Prosperity for $1.99, blue tag, so I got that, too. For an economist, he writes very well, right up there with Tooze. Expect a longer review in a few weeks.

There were a few other odd books there, with a Conservative bias. "How to win Conservative arguments with a Liberal" and "Do-Gooders, how Liberals wreck everything!" and a few other apocalyptic ones, heading into "None Dare Call it Treason" territory. Maybe it was donations from the estate of someone who had a fatal heart attack in November.

At a different Goodwill, a few weeks ago, I picked up a bunch of Disney Fairy books, and Cassino: The Hollow Victory, about the Hellhole that was Italy in 1943-1944. The only admirable commander on the Allied side if the French dude, Juin.

Speaking of the economy, the Baltic Dry Index is up! I hope the Mediterranean Index follows, and then the Vermont one.

I racked off my lager Sunday, it's tasting good. Keg time is this weekend, it won't be in time for the Saint Paddy's Day parade on the 14th, but I prefer stout anyhow for those days.

I think I like Gabi on Desperate Housewives best, she's has the most character growth. I think that about ends my Sunday stuff.

I did not know this until I borrowed the DVD, but the Season 4 Twilight Zones were an hour long. Sadly, most TZ stories aren't hefty enough for an hour. The Thirty Fathom Grave could have been cut way down, though He's Alive works at that length.

I had the fun task of scheduling a meeting between several different developer groups using Outlook, why, even the conference room is on outlook. It was barely big enough, it was big enough for the people I invited, but they invited a few people, and before you know it, it was a party.

In other work news, we're having a team outing tomorrow afternoon, hence the unusual Thursday diarizing.

I was rooting around in the attic looking for old pictures to put on Facebook when I found my D&D stuff. I only bought three modules, and we never played the Hommlet one. We did go through the Keep on the Borderlands and the Isle of Dread, I think my favorite was the one my friend had, the Barrier Peaks. The long Drow one was good, but how can it match the history of the Barrier Peaks? I only recall playing D&D at a con once, the setup was for some reason invading Morder through the northern mountains, I don't recall exactly why we players were dispatched to do that.

I also dragged out the Monster Manual, seven year old got a kick out of it, she likes to draw, the drawing are kind of amatuerish, and there are fairies in it, FAIRIES!

< I feel icky, with photos, but not photos of icky | Change4Life follow-up >
Ask Husi: Is it child abuse to expose a tween to the Wheel of Time? | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)
i will never... by clock (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 04:54:32 AM EST
...use the word "tween."  ever.  seriously.

and i remember those modules...i think.  i know i remember the barrier peaks.  i think that was when i stopped playing a cleric and moved to being a full time meat shield.

I agree with clock entirely --Kellnerin

Do you need a spoiler for something 30 by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #2 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 04:59:23 AM EST
years old?

Barrier Peaks was cool because eventually you realized it was a cookbook! Err, a crashed spaceshop

tween works for me, maybe I'm trying to keep from realizing she's a teenager!

[ Parent ]
i think you're right... by clock (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:03:13 AM EST
...denial is what started the "tween" thing.  i have a buddy who calls his kid a tween.

and YES!  i totally remember that!  i also remember that being a cleric sucked.  in my most recent playing (the 3.5 rules or whatever was hot 4 or 5 years ago) i was a half-orc druid.  he has a great back story and a "scimitar of greater wiffing."  what more could you want?

I agree with clock entirely --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
I can't remember much fun playing a cleric by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:09:23 AM EST
and I wasted years playing D&D. It's either a lame class, or needs more insight than a teenage boy can provide.

[ Parent ]
WIPO: Ravenloft by ks1178 (2.00 / 0) #34 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:22:07 AM EST
1st edition one.  (Although the 2nd edition was was fun as well, never played any of the others).

As for clerics, yeah in 1st and 2nd edition they weren't all that fun.

Which is why for 3rd edition they got some huge buffs, and if you really knew how to exploit the D&D rules, they could be way over powered at higher levels. (3.5 removed some of the most exploitable spells but you could still create a cleric that was pretty overpowered).

Granted if you wanted to you could do that with most classes in 3.5, but clerics could reach heights that the others could only wish for.

I bought the 4th edition books, but basically only glanced through them, and haven't had a chance to sit down and actually play any.

[ Parent ]
I've been following Order of the Stick by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #41 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 01:27:21 PM EST
and it becomes obvious that they figured that clerics had gotten the short end of the stick and cranked the power way up. Druids are even worse, unless the DM foolishly allows something called nightsticks (which are said to give the cleric total invincibility 24/7 instead of few rounds).


[ Parent ]
They fixed that in 4E by riceowlguy (4.00 / 1) #57 Sun Mar 22, 2009 at 08:00:08 PM EST
Wizards realized that a) most parties need a cleric, and b) it shouldn't be boring.  Clerics get to do badass stuff in 4th edition.

[ Parent ]
preach it brother by yankeehack (4.00 / 1) #40 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 01:16:26 PM EST
>> tween works for me, maybe I'm trying to keep
>> from realizing she's a teenager!

Um, hell yes I am in denial.
"...she dares to indulge in the secret sport. You can't be a MILF with the F, at least in part because the M is predicated upon it."-CBB

[ Parent ]
You will use the word. by Gedvondur (4.00 / 2) #10 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:18:29 AM EST
If Stacky pumps out a girl.  It fits 11, 12, 13 and 14 year old girls perfectly.


"I love my brain. It's the only organ I can afford to lose." --frijolito
[ Parent ]
um, 9, 10 ... by yankeehack (4.00 / 1) #39 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 01:15:23 PM EST
and LO of course. 
"...she dares to indulge in the secret sport. You can't be a MILF with the F, at least in part because the M is predicated upon it."-CBB
[ Parent ]
child abuse ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:06:22 AM EST
Nah, only if you introduce it to her rear end more than 10 times. Remember, don't hit when angry.

I think it's come to the end by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:10:08 AM EST
so she won't have to wonder if Jordan will die before he wraps up all the loose ends.

[ Parent ]
um, didn't you know? by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:25:17 AM EST
he did die.  while writing the final book.  his wife and the publisher are going to finish it, but nobody knows when.  he left copious notes so they would be able to finish it for him .

it's driving me nuts.


[ Parent ]
I lost interest after book five by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #15 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:28:37 AM EST
the plot just kept getting slower and slower, with nothing every being resolved.

[ Parent ]
It is being worked on by CMcKinnon (2.00 / 0) #53 Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 06:05:35 AM EST
Brandon Sanderson ( has been working on it for over a year now, and expects to finish it sometime this year. He updates his site frequently with progress on it.

[ Parent ]
i know by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #54 Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 07:38:45 AM EST
but until i see it....

[ Parent ]
i second that by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #55 Mon Mar 16, 2009 at 05:46:42 PM EST
at 12, she may not get it all...but it'd make for good reading a second time through.

if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]
Why don't you just rape her instead? by Imperial Mince (4.00 / 3) #7 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:16:14 AM EST
You'd still be a better parent than if you expose her to that filth.

It doesn't have strong femail characters, it has female characters who fold their arms under their tits and "tug" their "braids". With stupid names that have insane pronunciations.

Perhaps if you want to teach her the important lesson that everything turns to shit in the end you could give her the Eye of the World, and then cackle manically as passable fantasy fare becomes a turgid lump of steaming shit that the useless fat fuck of an author died before he could finish raping the memory of its corpse.

If you really hate her, you could double team it with a Game of Thrones at the same time, then she can enjoy two fantasy series where the beardy authors get fatter and fatter with each book they publish, and each book advances the story less and less,  blathering on about pointless fucking characters that no-one gives a shit about. Hey ghost of Jim and George, I'm sorry that you're bored of writing in the same world, but I've fucking paid up, now fucking get writing.



This space reserved for whining like a little bitch and being sanctimonious.
Oooh, Game Of Thrones by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:18:09 AM EST
there's a good board game made of it.

[ Parent ]
Does the game.. by anonimouse (4.00 / 2) #18 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:44:09 AM EST
..ever end? Or do you have to wait 5 years till next turn?

Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
I've never played it by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:49:02 AM EST
though it's rated highly at  Boardgamegeek.

[ Parent ]
it's fun by garlic (2.00 / 0) #44 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 03:55:55 PM EST
I like it.

[ Parent ]
few strong female characters by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:17:35 AM EST
Eowyn and Galadriel are the only ones that I recall. And Eowyn is the only one who actually goes out and Does Things directly, even though... No. No Tolkien Geekery.

No D&D geekery either. Well, maybe a bit. The series of modules that included the Vault (or caves or whatever) of the Drow, and ended up on the astral planes fighting some giant spider were my favorites. Took the crew I was with a couple months to get through them. Leaving us all with multi-classed characters at 20+ level. Then we discovered girls and retired the characters, and ourselves. That was 2nd Ed. D&D.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

Descent into the Depths of the Earth by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:20:42 AM EST
is the Drow one.

IIRC, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins is mentioned at the end of the Hobbit, as being a greedy jealous wench. She reprises that role in LOTR, though eventually redeems herself.

Arwen is mentioned too, though all she does is look purty. Ditto Rosie Cotton.

[ Parent ]
Eowyn does things by Merekat (4.00 / 2) #29 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:04:12 AM EST
And then she repents and finds true happiness in not doing things anymore. Which could suck more if it wasn't what nearly everyone was trying to do.

[ Parent ]
Pretty much everyone by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #32 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:16:21 AM EST
except Aragorn.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
and Samwise Gamgee by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #33 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:18:39 AM EST
He does a lot, which explains the 20 hobbitlings he and Rosie have.

[ Parent ]
Sam Gamgee by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #37 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 12:31:08 PM EST
...was obviously a great believer in the "every sperm is sacred" school. He is the shining example of Roman Catholism in Middle Earth

Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
you know by codemonkey uk (2.00 / 0) #48 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 11:24:47 PM EST
thats really not a good role model for a t(w)eenage daughter

--- Thad ---
Almost as Smart As you.
[ Parent ]
WIPO by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:21:34 AM EST
The Temple of Elemental Evil


the Tomb of Horrors


"I love my brain. It's the only organ I can afford to lose." --frijolito
I don't recall playing those by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:27:19 AM EST
I know I don't own them.

[ Parent ]
Heh by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #26 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:19:48 AM EST
They are teh sweet.


"I love my brain. It's the only organ I can afford to lose." --frijolito
[ Parent ]
Tomb of horrors was the one by wumpus (4.00 / 1) #42 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 01:35:27 PM EST
where the entire party died before the game started*. I remember playing it rather young with a munchkin party (somebody had the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords) and we didn't have a prayer (note, power doesn't help. Luck, paranoia, and brains help. In decreasing exponential order).

I'd go with the one on the Abyss (final Drow module).


* no, not Traveler. This was in AD&D where this wasn't supposed to happen.

[ Parent ]
Jordan should be perfect tweener material by lm (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:31:02 AM EST
Now that I think about it, it's very Buffyesque except the main character is a guy, it takes itself seriously and there are no song and dance numbers.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
I have yet to convince my family to watch Buffy by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:33:05 AM EST
the kids are still big on Disney, and Buffy may be too intense for seven year old.

[ Parent ]
yeah by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 1) #20 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:51:25 AM EST
buffy has a lot of sex at a certain point with some pretty heavy themes - i'm not sure it's right fo ra 7 year old.

[ Parent ]
The monsters are pretty scary, too. by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 05:52:45 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure it's right for a 12 year old by wiredog (3.00 / 2) #22 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:01:22 AM EST
Parts of season 2, where Angel loses his soul, are intense for an adult. Certainly wouldn't expose an average 13 year old to them.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
I watched Outer Limits episode 1 last night by ad hoc (2.00 / 0) #23 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:03:45 AM EST
It's one of the episodes I remember because it scared me so much. (I think I must have been about 7 when it first aired.)

It's still good.

The synopsis looks good by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #24 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:06:13 AM EST

[ Parent ]
i remember reading some pretty awful stuff at 12 by misslake (4.00 / 1) #25 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:17:38 AM EST
not sure i have any good advice for what to suggest to your girl... not sure if you consider "how well i turned out" to be a glowing reccomendation.

i loved tolkein.
also, like all the other girls my age, loved christopher pike, and vc andrews. why we were all reading such disturbing crap in grades 6 - 9 i have no idea. and stephen king, too. we all scared ourselves stupid reading the books then watching the movies.

ursula k. leguin writes some awesome fantasy and sci fi. great women, great men too.
heinlein's books for youth are great, though you run the risk of her picking up some of the sexier swingin' adult themed ones by serching for author at the library. (again, look how well i turned out)
francesca lia block's weetzie bat books, "dangerous angels" are great silly girly books. i didn't read them untill recently, but have several friends who read them during thier formative years. awesome.

i also got into asimov and a.c. clark when i was that age, if she's not into tolkein or sci-fi movies at all those won't be good for her. but in the foundation series, arkady is a really great female teen character.

l.m. montgomery? though i am not sure if the anne or emily books would be interesting for a teen who didn't spend a lot of her childhood reading the little house books. i was realy into the pioneer thing. it was a natural progression from laura ingalls to green gables.

She really liked Uglies by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 06:21:19 AM EST
and Westerfield's other books in that series, which are science fiction. But she didn't want to pick up any Heinlein I suggested.

I figured Watership Down was an easy sell after all the Warrior Cats she reads, but she won't pick it up.

I'll consider your other suggestions, I think she prefers to get recommendations from her bff over me, though.

[ Parent ]
I endorse the Le Guin recommendation too by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #28 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:02:03 AM EST
Also, give me Tolkien over Jordan any day, thanks.
Has she tried the Garth Nix Sabriel/Lirael/Abhorsen trilogy? Or His Dark Materials?
Where does the 'strong female characters' requirement come from? I note these days David Eddings is marketed at teenagers. His female characters are pretty dreadful, which is all the more amusing since he co-writes with his wife.

[ Parent ]
Empirically by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #30 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:06:35 AM EST
The protagonist of Inkheart/Inkspell is a 12 year old girl. The protagonist in Uglies is a teenage girl.

Her latest fave is a girl masquerading as a Prince.

She complains about reading books for school that she can not relate to, you know, inner city boys exposed to violence.

[ Parent ]
Okey by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #31 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 08:15:16 AM EST
Go with Sabriel then if she hasn't read it. It has one of these older (18)  female heroines who appeal to young teenage girls.

[ Parent ]
Try something by Guy Gavriel Kay by marvin (4.00 / 1) #36 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 10:23:43 AM EST
Excellent characterization, strong female characters in all of his books (not usually the lead character though). My favourites of his are the Sarantine Mosaic (two books), Lions of Al-Rassan, Tigana, and Last Light of the Sun. All are fairly long, in the 600 page range.

Kay is a canuckistani poet and author, helped Christopher Tolkien with the Silmarillion back in the 70's. Not that his stuff is anything like Tolkien's.

[ Parent ]
Much as I adore Kay by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #49 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 11:32:15 PM EST
I'm not sure a barely teenager will get as much out of it and would hate for them to find it too introspective and not come back to it later.

He writes wonderfully though.

[ Parent ]
strong female characters by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #47 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 04:47:11 PM EST
Dora rescued a prince from a tower the other day, which I thought was hilarious. Then we watched Sleeping Beauty, the movie where the main character has about 10 speaking lines, mostly to chipmunks and bluebirds.

(it'll be a few years before I have to worry about tweens.)

[ Parent ]
Dora is getting a makeover by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #52 Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 01:52:16 AM EST
she's turning into a tween.

[ Parent ]
thirding le guin by infinitera (2.00 / 0) #43 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 03:30:07 PM EST

[…] a professional layabout. Which I aspire to be, but am not yet. — CheeseburgerBrown

[ Parent ]
David Eddings was always marketed at teenagers/ by Imperial Mince (2.00 / 0) #50 Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 01:11:37 AM EST
Preteens surely? I can't think of another author fantasy where saying "If you've read one book, you've read them all" would be more true, although they are strangely compelling still.

This space reserved for whining like a little bitch and being sanctimonious.
[ Parent ]
Post Harry Potter by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #51 Fri Mar 13, 2009 at 01:49:11 AM EST
I noticed for Europe anyway, post Harry Potter, the covers etc. got a makeover and bookstores seemed to receive instructions to move them into YA/Childrens, rather than file under Fantasy/SF.

[ Parent ]
dragonriders of pern. by garlic (2.00 / 0) #45 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 03:57:24 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I'd suggest by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #35 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 09:54:32 AM EST
Diana Wynne Jones for the fantasy stuff. The Dark Lord of Derkholm's great.

Write In Option... by atreides (2.00 / 0) #38 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 12:36:37 PM EST
Château d'Amberville

As for Wheel of Time, even with adults it should be considered aggravated assault...

He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope.

Like everyone else by houser2112 (2.00 / 0) #46 Thu Mar 12, 2009 at 04:08:27 PM EST
I'm going to say that exposing anyone to the Wheel of Time series is abuse, child or adult.  I think I finally became fed up with that series after reading Crown of Swords.

Also, I usually take very good care of my books, but those books are falling apart after 2, maybe 3 readings.  I have to believe it's shoddy manufacturing.

i suspect by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #56 Mon Mar 16, 2009 at 05:47:09 PM EST
it's partially because they're so damn thick.
if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]
Ask Husi: Is it child abuse to expose a tween to the Wheel of Time? | 57 comments (57 topical, 0 hidden)