By nightflameblue (Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:10:49 AM EST) (all tags)
Metalocalypse Season 2: Black Fire Upon Us - released. Actually stocked in major stores. The Metalocalypse has begun.

The warning sticker on the front is how you know it's gonna be awesome.


Awesome. I need my own discretion, AND my parent's discretion.

"You're just the bass player. Shouldn't you be loading gear or something?"



Quite some time ago we watched some movie about a modern day skinhead/Nazi duder self-hating half Jew something 'er other. In that movie, there was a bunch of babble about how the Jews brought on the Holocaust be being so damn complacent about it, not trying to protect themselves at all.

Not my personal opinion, mind you.

Now we're watching this made for TV miniseries called, simply, Holocaust back in '78 about one family's struggle through the build up of the Nazi regime and how some of the people around them dealt with and became a part of the war. In it, the basic theme has seemed to be that the Jewish People, in general, were ridiculously cooperative, allowing a small regiment of SS to execute 30,000+ Jewish folks in just two days by simply doing whatever they were told, right up to lining up and waiting for the gun shots. Never once thinking to fight back.

The Jewish Council in Warsaw is portrayed as a bunch of people essentially brought together to police and report their own people's activities to the Nazi regime. The line that rings out from the council to me is stated by one of its elder members, "We are as we always were, victims." It's almost as if the Jewish people were just so used to always getting the short end of the stick they simply accepted that they were going to be wiped out, and went right along with it because that was easier than fighting it.

Again, not my opinion. Portrayals in historical mythology. Though the interspersing of actual film clips from some of the death camps makes me wonder.

Was the culture of victim so strong in the Jewish people at the time that they simply refused to fight for their own right to live? Or has the common mythology of that time become that the Jewish people refused to fight for themselves? Or is antisemitism so strong that the freedom fighters of the time have had their entire existence wiped out of the historical record? Or am I somehow seeing the entire situation in the wrong light because of a bad connection between stupid videos?

I just know Mrs. NFB and I keep asking each other, "why does no one fight? Line after line of people just step up and wait for the gun shots. Why?"


Work? Who needs it?

I mean, sure, bills and shit, but bleh. Just bleh.

Disconnect. . .

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HAPPY METALOCALYPSE DAY! | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 hidden)
Some fought by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #1 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:45:43 AM EST
see Escape from Sobodor, and read up on the Warsaw Ghetto Uprisings.

There was a lot of entrenched anti-semitism in Germany, Poland and the USSR, so the Jews were outnumbered and overwhelmed. Denmark is another story.

Outnumbered and overwhelmed I understand. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #2 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:49:11 AM EST
Thirty thousand lined up like cattle and calmly walking to their own slaughter by a handful of soldiers I don't.

[ Parent ]
No where to run, no where to hide. by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #5 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 01:14:12 PM EST
In places where there is rough terrain, populations tend to remain regardless of attempts to wipe them out.  The Warsaw uprising only "worked" in the sense that the Nazis wanted to take the Jews alive (presumably to keep the counts accurate), and the Jews were willing to fight to avoid this (otherwise they could have just firebombed the area).

The Jews also have a long history of attempts to wipe them out (I think the Assyrians probably came closest).  There was little reason to suspect that the methods that worked for the last 3k years wouldn't continue to work (if not for the individual). 


[ Parent ]
I guess it depends by duxup (4.00 / 1) #3 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 09:51:13 AM EST
I have no answer for why something like that might happen or why people would do those things.  At the same time I think people often evaluate things from their own perspective too much.  I'm white, American, so I have a couple bucks compared to most of the world, relatively free, and demographically for the most part I fit in the more enabled, holding power, majority of the population in many ways (despite the fact that I'm sure some similar folk would whine that we're oppressed because we're not a 1950s bleached white, don't mention the blacks, nation). 

I think that's a far different POV than being a minority group in some ways isolated and scapegoated by the larger population.  Those experiences I think impact you in all sorts of ways.  It's not like once the #### started to hit the fan or even just before Jews could file some sort of lawsuit in German court saying Hey would you mind not trying to exterminate us? also maybe not blame us for everything?  and win.  Heck there were folk in Germany who tried to sound alarms, they were either driven out or killed, and as far as I know many Jews did make a break for it and got out of the country or tried to before it got worse.  I don't know if or how many people headed to the showers fully aware, of a healthy and logical mind, and wanted to go or didn't care.   I do think over time oppression and such wear you down and maybe death seemed for at least a few as a good and inevitable escape, or at least a faithful way to die other than capitulating to their captors.  Again I don't know how many people felt what way or knew what so I cant say, but I can see how some might simply give up or give in or feel that might be a way out.

Well by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #4 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 10:34:58 AM EST
The Japanese in California were pretty complacent about being rounded up as well.  I suspect part of it was that the Jews in Germany had no idea how ungodly barbaric the Nazis were going to be until it was too late.

Very likely by the time they were lined up, death seemed a better option than anything that could be gotten by running at the stormtroopers with submachine guns.
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

a decent point by garlic (2.00 / 0) #7 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 01:37:53 PM EST
the survivors from the camps were not really in any shape to fight anyone or anything.

[ Parent ]
why do you stay at a job that drives you crazy? by garlic (4.00 / 1) #6 Tue Dec 02, 2008 at 01:35:36 PM EST

Yay for Metalocalypse! by dark nowhere (4.00 / 1) #8 Wed Dec 03, 2008 at 07:03:33 AM EST
Anyway, about the Jews. I'm not sure whether their history has anything to do with it, but if it does, they may have simply had the sense that "this is nothing new."

But to take it out of that context, it still works out. If you have a highly organized system that doesn't start off by advertising that the end of the line is getting shot/burned/gassed/worse, then it's difficult to choose to fight at first: there's no immediate gain and the long term is unclear.

As has been pointed out, by the time fate becomes obvious, few people have strength to fight.

As for the complacency argument, that amounts to claiming "she wanted it."

See you, space cowboy.

HAPPY METALOCALYPSE DAY! | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 hidden)