Print Story Economics, finance, crunch, etc.
By Tonatiuh (Tue Nov 25, 2008 at 09:51:57 PM EST) (all tags)
Yesterday  was spent delving into the economic situation.

We are doomed. DOOMED!

It started with this video, that many of you may have seen by now.

The scary thing is that a laissez fare capitalist is the only person making sense. For laughing (crying?) value, listen to what the other  supposed "experts" suggest as best shares to invest in, and the "insightful" comment about the extent of the subprime fiasco.

Nobody is questioning  people that, like Schiff,  seem to be right about the reasons of the current situation, about the social consequences of allowing everything to go to hell. But maybe there is no way to avoid a monumental meltdown that will make us look at the 1970s and early 90s with nostalgic attachment.

Now, Schiff suggests buying gold amongst other things, but on the same clip he talks about GLD shares. After such brilliant showing you would think he may be suggesting a sure winner, but wait a second:  GLD may have problems of its own.

Add to this that other pundits, that also saw the crisis coming, are suggesting exactly the opposite (spend, spend, spend) and are mightily pleased with the economic team assembled by Barack Obama.

If two people so right about the analysis of the situation, when it was unfashionable to hold such views, can differ so substantially about the medicine, what hope is there that people propping up the current broken system (Brown, Bush, Obama et al) could actually fix it?

Sometimes I feel that the only humane solution is to abolish capitalism, thus wiping out all debt, institute a temporary communist style of government in which democracy continues to operate but all economic decisions are taken by the government (we are almost there anyway, banks in the UK are still not lending, are raising interest rates on credit cards, are raising commissions on overdrafts and business accounts, all this in spite of the bailout with *public money* and the government is telling them what to do and threatening with nationalization if they don't do as they are told).

Such system would be reviewed every 5 years, until it was deemed that the normal market, under sane rules and regulations, could be rebooted from scratch.

My solution is madness of course. But is it much worse than what our leaders are doing?

Doomed I am telling you all. Doomed!

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Economics, finance, crunch, etc. | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)
Communism by Breaker (4.00 / 2) #1 Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 01:54:37 AM EST
Yeah that'll work.

it has a great history of success by cam (2.00 / 0) #5 Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 03:38:30 PM EST
I would not discount it as a solution.


Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
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Capitalism by Tonatiuh (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 01:55:19 AM EST
Yeah that'll work.

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Touche, Sir by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 02:55:18 AM EST

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:-) by Tonatiuh (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 12:13:32 PM EST
We really are doomed :-)

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A lot of this is overreaction by jump the ladder (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:52:01 AM EST
We've gone from stupidly optimistic to stupdly pessismistic.

Anyway communism hasn't been exactly a briliant economic sucess unless you want Soyuz rockets and T34s.

Why is everything so bloody fevered? by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #3 Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 08:59:58 AM EST
Can't any group of people get together and look at it with a cool head. Or is "None of us is dumb as all of us" true?

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I like Soyuz rockets. by Tonatiuh (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 01:59:22 AM EST
jokes aside, when will the time or reckoning come to deal with the monstrous amounts of debt and trade deficit in the US and UK?

One could consider the current pessimism an overreaction, but the fact is that if our governments keep borrowing money and dumping it into circulation we will have eventually a time of reckoning. No economy has escaped this reality, ever.

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Historical perspective by lm (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Nov 26, 2008 at 09:12:55 AM EST
The Byzantine economy ran mostly well for about a thousand years or so with a mix of central planning in a few key areas (production of staple foods, mining, arms, purple dye, etc.) and more or less free markets in most other areas.

So I don't see any real reason to let capitalism burn itself to the ground every few years unless one assumes that the only two alternatives are pure state socialism or pure free markets.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
In those times by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 12:37:24 AM EST
Was there a benevolent dictator running the key industries and doing the policing?

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Byzantium was a bureaucracy by lm (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 05:22:46 AM EST
While it was putatively a monarchy, in practice getting anything done without the cooperation of the both the Senate and various power blocs (nobles, merchants) was practically impossible. The emperor was essentially always at risk of being deposed as his authority stemmed from acceptance of his reign by these same groups.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
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That sounds like UKia by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 05:31:30 AM EST
Senate  - read parliament
various power blocs (nobles, merchants) - House of Lords
emperor - QE II whom various factions are always trying to remove

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But the UK has no Varangian Guard by lm (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 05:57:56 AM EST
Where's the monarch's personal army of vikings, eh?

The scale is similar. In the fourth and fifth centuries the Byzantine empire as a a whole had somewhere between 20 and 30 million souls, probably about a million or so in Constantinople itself.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
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Beefeaters. by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 07:32:01 AM EST
Any recommended online potted history of Byzantium at all?

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Online? Dunno. by lm (4.00 / 1) #14 Thu Nov 27, 2008 at 07:43:12 AM EST
Stephen Lawhead has a fun novel set in Byzantium that involves Irish monks, vikings, muslims and a book of Kells.

But Byzantine history has been historically hard to come buy. For much of modern history, the west kind of just adopted Voltaire's attitude of ignoring the Byzantines as something of an embarrassment to the theory that everything in the middle ages was crap and the only things worth exploring were either from antiquity or new to the moderns. This view has only recently started to change and Byzantine studies are presently the hot new item.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
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Thanks, mate by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Nov 28, 2008 at 01:35:02 AM EST
I shall be ordering that forthwith.

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Economics, finance, crunch, etc. | 16 comments (16 topical, 0 hidden)