Print Story Esoteric
By BadDoggie (Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 05:27:36 AM EST) lurveys, trolling, atheism (all tags)
I'm an atheist and have been one all my life. It's not a good idea to proselytise within hearing range of me because I most happily argue the subject and really need to figure out how to make that pay better.

I also learned long ago that, even if she's an atheist, if I want a companion sans Y-chromosome there's going to be some esoteric crap in the mix. I can live with it. But discussing it with me? No. Uh-uh. Very Bad Idea™. I'm more likely to let you bend me over the counter with a strap-on but to edit and post the video to YouPorn than put up with such a conversation.

Poll: name my potential/hypothetical offspring

I know where our first fight's coming from. She made the mistake of throwing out the usual "atheism is a belief" and "you're an agnostic" non sequitors. Considering how she dropped the subject and kissed me I'm hoping that it was all just a wind-up but if not, shit.

The standard Celestial Teapot shpiel should sort this one but I'm afraid of somehow tilting the equality equation over. Not trying to dominate (much less getting Napoleon syndrome because she has a PhD) was one of a number of things she cited as grounds for wanting to progress. She has a knack for sticking me in dilemmas. I'm pouring myself a wee dram of Aberlour A'bunadh (59.6% cask strength) and hoping it stays on a purely intellectual level. She's smrt.

She's again warned me about daddy whom I will meet only -- fuck me -- nine days from now. He's Victorian. He liked her ex. A lot. He believes I stole her away or something to that effect. I'm going to get some face time with him on Saturday which will not be nearly as amusing a part of our trip as will be arrival on Friday in lederhosen and dirndl to attend a party. At least her gran is already a fan, if only because I'm not Catholic.

In other news: RIG stumbled across something at work yesterday and had an idea on how to troll the fuck out of the expats' board. It was beautiful, made only more so by us honing the idea together while at a drinks meet-up last night with them all around us. It worked. I love her so much.

< Zat You, Santa Claus? | Has the house been bugged? >
Esoteric | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden)
WIPO by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #1 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 05:36:55 AM EST
Combine both your attributes - GingerMutt

Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
Someone needs to be introduced to ... by lm (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 06:09:06 AM EST
... the flame wars on the listserver.

Or at least I'm still assuming they're going on. I haven't checked them out in close to ten years.

Regardless, there (or in the archives) will be found all the answers to such red herrings right along side those actual red herrings put forth by atheists of slightly different flavors who are convinced that atheists of the first flavors aren't intellectually honest. And vice versa. I think the only thing they agree on is that God is teh suck.

In this regard, atheism has much the same problem as Christianity. Pick the worst possible absurd caricature to burn down as a strawman and you can find someone in the real world who actually believes that. This leaves the burner of straw in the preeminent position to then argue that it isn't a strawman because so and so believes it.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
DOG EXISTS by theboz (4.00 / 1) #3 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 06:23:29 AM EST
Ther fore, STSIXE GOD.  There's the proof, and why Jeebus has saved your sole.

- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
Damn it. by sugar spun (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 06:31:17 AM EST
I mean, um, you're wrong. And you're an agnostic, too.

He strikes me as more of a fundamentalist atheist by notafurry (2.00 / 0) #6 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 07:37:06 AM EST
In that the extremists of opposite positions often have more in common with each other than with the moderates of their own side.

[ Parent ]
Clarify for me by Herring (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 07:46:10 AM EST
Is a "fundamentalist atheist" someone who doesn't believe in an agressively interventionist god? As opposed to not believing in a more benevolent CofE type god? I don't believe in either so where does that leave me?

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
A fundamentalist atheist by notafurry (4.00 / 1) #8 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:25:58 AM EST
is just like a fundamentalist Christian/Muslim/Democrat/Republican/Beanie Baby collector. <Insert belief or position here> is so self-evidently superior that not only am I more [intelligent/morally superior/successful with the ladies] just for holding the position, but I'm also justified in inserting myself into your life for the purpose of educating you so that you, too, can be more [intelligent/morally superior/successful with the ladies].

Bonus points if friends and family actively avoid the topic and try to warn others off and/or chastise others for raising the topic.

[ Parent ]
Hmm. by Herring (2.00 / 0) #13 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:03:43 AM EST
The Amish are pretty fundamentalist christians but don't bother anyone else. Maybe "fundamentalist" is not the word you are looking for.

Standing up and saying "believing in something for which there is no evidence is silly" isn't really fundamentalism in my book. Attempting to affect legislation which would control the lives of those who don't subscribe to your beliefs is quite another thing.

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
You can be fundamentalist by ad hoc (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:13:47 AM EST
But that would be unamerican! by notafurry (2.00 / 0) #18 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:21:16 AM EST
Oh, wait. I guess that explains it.

[ Parent ]
Things that could be by ad hoc (2.00 / 0) #20 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:46:47 AM EST
I like to think that's me. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #24 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 11:47:21 AM EST
But I'm not sure.

[ Parent ]
The atheist family tree by lm (4.00 / 1) #12 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:03:31 AM EST
    atheists in general
  • strong atheist (`I believe the proposition `God does not exist')
  • weak atheist (I lack belief in the proposition `God exists')

    • agnostic (the question is unknowable)
    • empiricist (science has not proved that God exists so we should not assent to belief in him)
    • etcetera

Or more simply put, strong (or hard) atheists believe that there is not God while soft (or weak) atheists (of which agnostics are a subset) lack belief in God. Some atheists of all stripes are also dogmatic about their position and accuse all the rest of not being `real' atheists. Of the dogmatic versions, some are evangelistic in attitude.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
Talking of straw men by Herring (4.00 / 3) #15 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:08:21 AM EST
Even the mighty Dawkins (science be upon him) does not claim to believe that "God does not exist". He states that there is no evidence for God therefore I do not believe he exists. I take it that you do not believe that the land of Narnia exists but if you state that, then I don' accuse you of being an extremist.

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
indeed by 256 (4.00 / 3) #22 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 10:35:04 AM EST
for most definitions of God, i believe the proposition: "the likelihood of God is so vanishingly small as to be irrelevant"
anyone who claims this makes me an agnostic needs to learn how to use their words.

I don't think anyone's ever really died from smoking. --ni
[ Parent ]
I would agree with that by lm (2.00 / 0) #29 Sat Oct 18, 2008 at 03:28:38 AM EST
Agnosticism is one of the subsets of soft atheism. It isn't the only subset. If you think that knowledge of God (such as whether or not God exists) is possible, then you're certainly not agnostic in the classical sense. And if you think that there is a possibility, no matter how remote, that God could exist, then you're also not a hard atheist.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
If so, don't categorize Dawkins as a hard atheist by lm (4.00 / 1) #26 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 01:52:08 PM EST
I don't really know what category Dawkins fits into. But strong atheists do exist. If you don't believe me, I'll can point you to a few authors.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
A puzzle for the pair of you to chew on. by Alan Crowe (2.00 / 0) #5 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 06:59:13 AM EST
Is this genuinely theistic or is it a cloakatively theistic cover for strident atheism?

YUO AER STUPID EJUKATID! by BadDoggie (2.00 / 0) #9 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:39:51 AM EST
Totally timecube.


OMG WE'RE FUCKED! -- duxup ?

[ Parent ]
I can sympathise on the Father thing by Phage (2.00 / 0) #10 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 08:59:20 AM EST
N's Ex was an Oxford graduate, lawyer and part-time opera singer.
He is also as wet as a dish rag on a Taiwanese prawn trawler.

I didn't so much steal her away, but rather catch the fragments as they went past.

I wasn't stolen. by sugar spun (4.00 / 1) #11 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:01:56 AM EST
My poor father labours under the delusion that I am in some way in need of being "kept safe", and that my ex was the man to do just that.

It's as though he's never met me.

[ Parent ]
He probably hasn't by Phage (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:04:06 AM EST
In any meaningful definition of 'met'.
I am sure that I would have exactly the same problem with my D2.

[ Parent ]
He once yelled at my poor mother by sugar spun (2.00 / 0) #17 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:19:13 AM EST
for "letting" me do something vaguely dangerous.

I was 27 and living in a different country, and the deed was done before I told either of them about it.

[ Parent ]
None too sympathetic a character then by Phage (2.00 / 0) #19 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 09:22:42 AM EST
I can see that BD could have a fabulous time.

[ Parent ]
I'll be bringing popcorn. by sugar spun (4.00 / 1) #21 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 10:04:32 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Heh by hulver (4.00 / 2) #23 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 11:10:57 AM EST

Cheese is not a hat. - clock
[ Parent ]
It is not in his interests to meet you by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #27 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 10:06:43 PM EST
He'll have to rebuild his world-view if he does and since his world view got him this far, there's clearly nothing wrong with it.

[ Parent ]
It'll be fine. by sugar spun (2.00 / 0) #28 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 11:38:05 PM EST

I can exploit his reality-blindness.

If it's all going horribly wrong, I'll make an offhand comment about the wondrousness of radical feminism, and BD will cease to be important in the Great Scheme of Things To Be Pissed About. BD managed to pick up that I wasn't serious about his agnosticism after only a few weeks; my father has never learned how to tell when I'm winding him up.

[ Parent ]
I love these comments by littlestar (4.00 / 1) #25 Wed Oct 15, 2008 at 12:22:58 PM EST
I wish we were all in a room together so you could all continue to make me giggle with your witty repartee. In lieu of that I will read more comments and giggle to myself.

Also, I love the way you love your woman BD; good luck in nine days, I'm sure you'll do just SMASHING!


Esoteric | 29 comments (29 topical, 0 hidden)