Ending of "Exit Music"?

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Campaigns by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #1 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 05:52:00 AM EST
I don't think you can blame it all on luck. Candidates almost always move to the middle in the general. Reagan did. Bush did. Clinton did. Obama is. For some unaccountable reason, McCain decided to move to the right for the general, with very predictable results.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
I think the only enthusiastic Republicans by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #2 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 06:55:30 AM EST
the ones who will man phone banks, raise money and help get out the vote, are Fundamentalists. It seems like he had to move right to get an organization.


[ Parent ]
Not just fundamentalists by lm (4.00 / 1) #8 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 01:36:42 PM EST
I will concede that the religious right (not just fundamentalists) are probably the majority of his organization right now. But, to be fair, I think that's largely because McCain sucks at organization and largely didn't even attempt to put an organization together during the primary. Sure, he had an uphill battle, but I don't think he came anywhere close to making good decisions given the crap hand he was given.
 

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure a foreign policy crisis would help by R343L (4.00 / 2) #3 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 08:01:37 AM EST
Look at some of McCain's more confusing or extreme positions and public statements here: he's got a secret plan to deal with OBL (yes, seriously!); he's absurdly militant against Iran; he actually said he wouldn't meet with Spain (yes, he might have been confused, but ...); he is excessively partisan for Georgia over the Ossetia business (to the point of seemingly wanting to re-start the Cold War); he's been confused about the difference between Sunni and Shia; etc.

The point is that if there had been a foreign policy crisis, it's possible he would have broken down as haphazardly and confusedly in his response as to the economic one. Obama, I think, is just more relaxed (during public appearance) and would have made sure anything he said publicly was considered (and likely advised!) I don't think Obama would get a similar lead from a foreign policy one, but I don't think McCain would have knocked it out of the park: he's just been too erratic lately to think none of that would have happened were there a different kind of crisis.

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot

excessively partisan for Georgia by wiredog (4.00 / 2) #13 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:57:29 AM EST
His top foreign policy adviser is a lobbyist for Georgia...

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Mmmmmm Maps. by priestess (4.00 / 1) #4 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 08:27:16 AM EST
Look forward to your financial suggestions.

Pre...............

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Chat to the virtual me...
Looking at China . . . by ammoniacal (4.00 / 1) #5 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 12:32:11 PM EST
I don't quite believe that that large of a variety of books is being published.
Sheer numbers, sure, but doesn't their government actively control this sort of thing?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

Books by duxup (4.00 / 2) #7 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 12:53:23 PM EST
Maybe publishing is totally unrestricted, but burning is mandatory?

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[ Parent ]
Looks pretty plausible by Scrymarch (4.00 / 2) #10 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 05:15:42 PM EST
This isn't the Cultural Revolution anymore, they have a big market for all kinds of books, an entire primary to tertiary education system to support, translations from English, etc. It's still underweight probably because of all the poor farmers. Big bookstores are common in middle sized cities IME, though I'm not an expert. That stat also looks to include Hong Kong.

This is not to suggest that censorship is not pervasive, it is, but it's more like a mix of the FDA early twentieth century censorship systems in the UK or Australia than something out of 1984.

Guy at work who lived there says Japan's book stats are kept high by the very popular pulp comics in book form.

Didn't realise Korea was so huge in book publishing though - together with the Brits they're quite the overachievers.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

[ Parent ]
I imagine HK heavily distorts that map. by ammoniacal (4.00 / 1) #12 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 01:53:09 AM EST
Also, I'm not that certain about Korea.
My Korean roomies sure watch a fucking LOT of television, more than any Ami I know. I don't think they have much time to read.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
HK, Korea by Scrymarch (4.00 / 3) #15 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 06:15:20 AM EST
HK would help, but I think you're falling into a Manichean fallacy here. For one thing, most of the HK publishing for local consumption will be in the traditional character has a market of mainly HK and Taiwan, plus a few overseas Chinese. If it's for the mainland market it will be in simplified characters and have to pass the censorship system.

Also you made me curious so I had a quick dig. Wiki puts China third in its list of volume of titles, which in the footnotes is a convenient summary of UNESCO figures. Those figures aren't even that up to date - last China datapoint is 1994. Check this trend though

1980     19109
1985     40265
1990     73923
1993     92972
1994    100951
2001    140000

(2001 stat)

It doubled every six years or so 1980-1995, with the rate now winding back. And HK only returned to the mainland in 1997.

The Chinese government have scaled up a model proven elsewhere, where lots of everyday liberties are legal, and more still are available but deliberately only enforced inconsistently, for political ends. The thirty year run of this model has been sufficiently successful that we now have Chinese tourists seeing the world and a Chinese contemporary art market hitting sale records. Can you imagine East German tour groups going to the US and coming back? It's not our father's communist enemy anymore. It is both less abjectly miserable and more insidiously sustainable.</soapbox>

Like I said, dunno what the story is with Korea, they do seem to produce a lot of movies and TV nowadays though. And plastic surgeons. Apparently plastic surgery tour group holidays to Korea is now a thing, which kind of weirds me out.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

[ Parent ]
foreign policy crisis by duxup (4.00 / 1) #6 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 12:45:09 PM EST
I recall one of McCain's campaign managers (or former after the comment I think) noting that a conflict with Iran or similar conflict would play in McCain's favor.

I'm not sure that would be the case.  I think a great deal would depend on the candidate's reactions and what exactly happened.   Just because voters give McCain a edge over Obama on such things that doesn't mean they think he's "good" at it.  It is just a comparison between two people.   The American people are pretty tired of the Iraq war as it is and McCain certainly digs deep into the angry knee jerk well at times.  If say it was Iran McCain has already played the hardliner card.  I think if something happened, McCain played it the way he has been, and early results (military, political) didn't look good, or looked like another occupation, it could kill his campaign. 

Also, those maps are way cool.  And Darth Vedar gargoyle, awesome.

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The thing is by Herring (4.00 / 2) #16 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:10:46 AM EST
the assumption seems to be that McCain would be good at war - despite the fact that, in the only one where he's participated, he got captured and locked up for ages. Clearly he's not that good.

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
Yeah by jump the ladder (4.00 / 1) #17 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:19:51 AM EST
He's probably more qualified as a BDSM dungeon master rather than a commander in chief from his Vietnam war days.

[ Parent ]
Mind you, he will never surrender again by Herring (4.00 / 2) #19 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:27:33 AM EST
He can't get his hands up that high anymore.

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure about that by duxup (4.00 / 1) #18 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:24:15 AM EST
I've no doubt some of his supporters think that but I think for the most part it is just a question about between these dudes and what you know who do you think has an edge on military matters.  I think picking either one is far from an endorsement of whatever they might do, rather it is just a choice between two dudes.  

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[ Parent ]
He also attended the National War College by lm (4.00 / 1) #20 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:37:32 AM EST
And served as CO of a US Navy flight squadron. In theory, those two things should help prepare someone fight a war. In practice, I don't know that either was formative enough to make that much of a difference.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
Big difference between by Herring (4.00 / 1) #21 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 08:43:09 AM EST
How to fight a war and should you fight a war.

To be bad a both would require a very special government. Oh ...

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
Interesting factoid by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #22 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 10:41:10 AM EST
The Commanders-in-Chief for the three largest wars that the US participated in, WWII, WWI and The Civil War, were all entirely lacking in military experience.

We were on the winning side of all of those wars.

(Though it is true that we finished out WWII with Truman, who was a veteran.)
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
I thought by Scrymarch (4.00 / 1) #24 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 03:15:00 PM EST
Lincoln was a junior militia commander for a month or so during one of the Indian wars. Which is not extensive experience, but not entirely without experience either.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

[ Parent ]
Ok, well by ucblockhead (4.00 / 2) #27 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:49:42 PM EST
Minimal experience then.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
He keeps saying he knows how to win a war by Tonatiuh (4.00 / 1) #25 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:44:00 PM EST
I find incomprehensible this assertion  keeping in mind he was a prisoner while the US lost the war.

But nobody is asking him about this in a straightforward manner. One thing is to be a hero of war, another very different is to get an epiphany out of the experience.


[ Parent ]
That approach has been tried by lm (2.00 / 0) #30 Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 12:54:33 PM EST
Back in the summer, Clark said ``I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president.''

It got bad reviews and the Obama campaign immediately distanced himself from Clark's remarks. Henceforth and forevermore (or until the end of the election cycle) any question of whether or not McCain knows how to fight a war will be considered an attack on his credentials as a prisoner of war. In a way, it is kind of befuddling. But, on the other hand, it makes as much sense as the way that quite a few attacks on Obama would be considered racist.

Aside from which, I don't think the US public at large really cares about whether McCain knows how to win the war. Regardless of any mystery strategy he may or may not have up his sleeve, the people of the US want the troops home sooner rather than later.


Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
We don't have a foreign policy crisis going on? by lm (4.00 / 3) #9 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 01:39:00 PM EST
Good grief, we've been living multiple foreign policy crises for years. What more could a hawk like McCain ask for, a hot war on a fourth front?

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
what's 3? by garlic (4.00 / 1) #28 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 07:13:59 PM EST
I guess 1 and 2 are Iraq Insurgency and the Taliban Insurgency.


[ Parent ]
The Balkans by lm (4.00 / 1) #29 Mon Oct 13, 2008 at 02:47:13 AM EST
We still haven't wrapped up NATO's mission in the former Yugoslavia.

Kindness is an act of rebellion.
[ Parent ]
Dignity by Scrymarch (4.00 / 1) #11 Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 05:23:39 PM EST
So George Herbert Bush was the last dignified President?

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

Yes by wiredog (4.00 / 2) #14 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 05:58:06 AM EST


Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
He was a credible statesman.... by Tonatiuh (4.00 / 3) #26 Sun Oct 12, 2008 at 04:50:38 PM EST
... independently of if you agree with his politics or not.

And lets not forget he did not invade Iraq. In view of the events during the last few years this decision seems like the correct one.


[ Parent ]