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By StackyMcRacky (Wed Apr 03, 2019 at 02:13:50 PM EST) (all tags)
because y'all have good thoughts on things


We all know that Google tracks/harvests/sells/etc every. single. thing. you do online that's connected to them.

My kids' school has them use Google everything.  What are the ethics around having kids use these products when a) they're minors and 2) nobody ever asked for parental consent?

Discuss!!!

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Philosophical question | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden)
Answers, I have none by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #1 Wed Apr 03, 2019 at 03:10:26 PM EST
I'll just mention that my wife's school has a Twitter account, and that my wife has been shamed as a luddite because she won't let them post random pictures of her class in session to said account.

Well, maybe I have an answer.  Supposedly if they use the "enterprise" version like we do at work, nothing is available to Google.  You have to pay for that, though.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

we sign the by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Apr 03, 2019 at 03:29:50 PM EST
"no photos of my kids on social media," and the school seems to think streaming events on Facebook Live isn't social media.  I've had to correct them many times.  They would fail in a hospital setting.

I should ask if they use enterprise google. 

[ Parent ]
I ma 90% certain by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #12 Sun Apr 07, 2019 at 07:37:51 PM EST
they use Google Education Suite.

[ Parent ]
hmm by gzt (2.00 / 0) #3 Wed Apr 03, 2019 at 04:08:12 PM EST
  1. they likely  use the enterprise one or some product like it specifically for schools.
  2. as such, they know it's minor children and likely treat the privacy accordingly, even apart from the 'enterprise' part.
  3. the parental consent thing is annoying.


School accounts? by jw32767 (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Apr 03, 2019 at 10:14:18 PM EST
Presumably these are school specific Google accounts that the school would argue the kids should only be using for school related purposes.  There isn't much to track if you aren't doing random surfing and writing papers.  Now if they are personal accounts, that's a different story. 

I would not rely on that by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Apr 04, 2019 at 04:41:57 AM EST
There’s a fair amount of grumpiness among uni IT deps that the workflows for access to stuff are very centered on the individual rather than the IT team. As the ‚enterprise/campus‘  version is a pet in the google farm, accidental leakage is a real risk.

That said, to do other than google stuff means they need budget and skilled staff to maintain and support it. This is the market forces dream folks. You’re free to buy any part of your life you like and if you’re not really, obviously that’s some moral failure on your part.

[ Parent ]
I was wondering if they bothered to obtain consent by dark nowhere (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Apr 04, 2019 at 06:46:20 AM EST
I was reminded not long ago that the relevant laws have been eroded. So they'll be storing quite a lot of stuff.

Good luck.

See you, space cowboy.

Being a HIPAA Security Officer by Phil the Canuck (4.00 / 1) #7 Thu Apr 04, 2019 at 08:42:37 AM EST
I asked the assistant principal at my kids' high school about that when they announced all students would be doing all work on Chromebooks.  He has avoided me since and only reaches out to us via my wife. 

oh yeah by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #8 Thu Apr 04, 2019 at 09:11:33 AM EST
they installed a drivers license scanning software to check databases to see if you're a convicted perv, and I asked LOTS of questions about it.  got a lot of "uh...." back from the IT guy.

and then I pointed out to the school that my kids and other kids have "no social media" signed off, and yet the school facebook live streams EVERY event:  how do they keep the non-social-media kids off?  they had no answer, didn't even consider it.  in fact, it hadn't even dawned on them that maybe it was a violation of their own policies.

so i don't have  a lot of faith in anything the school does IT-wise.

[ Parent ]
In the EU by Herring (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Apr 04, 2019 at 10:59:32 AM EST
this would be really dodgy. Google might try to claim that data is anonymised, but that doesn't fly under GDPR - mainly because it's easy to de-anonymise. Data on minors is ... well, that company had better have a damned good reason.

There's a showdown coming between the EU and the likes of Google. It will be interesting to watch.

I realise that this is an incredibly unhelpful post.

You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

I don't have an answer, only something related ... by BlueOregon (2.00 / 0) #10 Fri Apr 05, 2019 at 10:21:38 PM EST

... but the year was 2011 and it wasn't Google, but it relates to the higher ed version of HIPAA -- FERPA --, and to a wiki, if not social media, etc.:


Georgia Tech Wipes Class Wikis From Web
https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/wiredcampus/georgia-tech-wipes-computing-class-wikis-from-web/34364


I got nothing by jimgon (4.00 / 1) #11 Sat Apr 06, 2019 at 09:13:54 PM EST
Been trying to spare thought cycles on this, but I have not come up with much.  Online profiles are stored, diced, and served up regardless of how they are built.  Once someone is online the process starts.  Heck your health insurer has massive datastores on your kids that they tie into publicly available sources.  (Seriously, fear your health insurer.) Google is no better or worse than them and they have access to the health data (de-personalized (ha, ha)). Basically I have no issue because the the cat has already gotten out of the house.  

And yeah, you already know I'm a cynic who believes we are headed to an authoritarian libertarian nightmare. 




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
Just finished this book by clock (4.00 / 2) #13 Tue Apr 09, 2019 at 07:50:15 AM EST
It's kind of right up your alley.

https://repeaterbooks.com/product/the-worst-is-yet-to-come-a-post-capitalist-survival-guide/

And yeah, it's as bad as it looks on the cover.


I agree with clock entirely --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
Interedting by jimgon (4.00 / 1) #15 Wed Apr 10, 2019 at 08:22:51 AM EST
I’m a firm believer in a digitally enabled serfdom fueled by debt.





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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
yes... by gzt (4.00 / 2) #14 Tue Apr 09, 2019 at 11:10:42 PM EST
...Diamond Age and Snow Crash look prescient rather than scifi

[ Parent ]
Late reply by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Apr 10, 2019 at 08:52:29 AM EST
Washington Area Intergroup, a local AA organization I'm involved with, is moving to G-Suite and we got a briefing on it last night. Basically, they have very strong privacy policies if you're willing to pay for them. WAIA, being a non-profit, gets them for free.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

Google Philosophy by Cable2600 (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Apr 11, 2019 at 01:22:22 AM EST
 Hi we're Google and we don't care because we don't have to! We'll sell your kids' info to the highest bidder because that is our business model. 

You are trying to reason with Big Brother use duck.com instead of Google. They won't track you.

BTW what about Microsoft Windows 10 and the built in Spyware?

Philosophical question | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden)