Print Story 2013 goals
Diary
By garlic (Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 10:19:13 AM EST) (all tags)
inspired by igrrrl


  • Keep up a lifestyle full of exercise. Taking a break slows me down a lot, and it's a good way to stay the body size I want without having to watch my food intake too much.
  • Get to the point where I can be friends with the ex. It's still early and awkward and living together doesn't make that any better. But work with her to improve that somehow.
  • Figure out dating. Better late then never. As part of that, treat everyone with respect, and don't rush into anything.
  • start biking more around the city.
  • Make new friends, and keep up with old friends.
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2013 goals | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
That's a good list by iGrrrl (2.00 / 0) #1 Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 03:22:02 PM EST
I kept making the same resolution every year, and failing, so my list was to try a new approach.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

Treating everyone with respect by dmg (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 05:07:04 PM EST
With all due respect, is stupid.

By all means treat people with respect if they have earned it, and assume the bes initially, but do not waste time treating people with respect who simply do not deserve it.
--
dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.

Actually, no. by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #3 Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 06:00:18 PM EST
People earn friendship. People earn trust. People get treated respectfully by default, even if we think they don't deserve it.
--
The amount of suck that you can put up with can be mind-boggling, but it only really hits you when it then ceases to suck. -- Kellnerin
[ Parent ]
Yes by default by dmg (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 07:52:07 PM EST
Until they demonstrate they don't deserve it.
--
dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.
[ Parent ]
Maybe you're confusing... by toxicfur (2.00 / 0) #5 Wed Dec 26, 2012 at 08:38:29 PM EST
"treat with respect" with "have respect for." Two different things, in my mind. I can not have respect for someone, but I will still attempt to treat them with respect. See?
--
The amount of suck that you can put up with can be mind-boggling, but it only really hits you when it then ceases to suck. -- Kellnerin
[ Parent ]
"and assume the bes initially" by marvin (4.00 / 1) #6 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 12:35:39 AM EST
I presume he meant "best". Which I read as him saying in his very first comment exactly what you are accusing him of not saying.

[ Parent ]
Not really by lm (4.00 / 1) #7 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 09:22:36 AM EST
Some of the people involved in the discussion seem to be suggesting that everyone is worthy of being treated with respect by virtue of of being human while others seem to be suggesting that some people are not worthy of being treated even with the minimum amount of respect due a human being.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Definitions are fun by marvin (4.00 / 1) #9 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:39:56 AM EST
Luckily, my minimum level of respect for a human being is lower than my minimum level of respect for a dog. I tend to agree with dmg - there is a default initial level of respect for humans, that can go into the negative range of values based upon the behaviour of the individual.

That is why we have the word "disrespect" in our language. Why should I be expected to have even a modicum of respect for those who prove themselves willing to murder, cheat, lie, and steal?

You have to work hard to get below-zero on my list, but a few people have succeeded. Humans should be held to a higher standard than an animal.

[ Parent ]
What if definitions weren't fun? by BlueOregon (2.00 / 0) #12 Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:19:31 AM EST
I take a slightly perverted Kantian approach to it all.

But first, a comment: the moment you provide "Why should I be expected to have even a modicum of respect for those who prove themselves willing to murder, cheat, lie, and steal?", assuming 'prove themselves willing' is (1) on an individual basis and (2) actually demonstrated, then there's probably not much of an argument going on, as we're already at the point of a reaction to an empirical situation. And depending on what we mean by 'respect' and so on, we would probably agree that certain people have lost it, and so on. But that doesn't really interest me.

Anyway, the perverse Kantianism is a reaction to an inability to justify treating 'the other' as having inherent, objective worth. See also: animals. Animals react to stimuli. We can be pretty sure that at least for some animals (other than humans) 'pain' is a meaningful notion, and from there we might be able to get to 'suffering.' But there's a whole lot of other assumptions and hoops to jump through to justify not harming animals based on stimuli -> pain -> suffering. And perhaps you're doing it based on some sort of utilitarian notion, etc. I prefer to bypass it, as well as the creeping naturalism of 'there's pain/suffering/killing in the natural world ... so why's it wrong if ...' by arguing it's not about the pain/suffering felt by the 'other.' And likewise here, though not rigorously.

It's not that the other shouldn't suffer; it's not that the other deserves respect. It's: am I the kind of person who is cruel? Am I the kind of person who mindlessly causes suffering? Am I the kind of person who respects, and in so doing treats others as rational subjects worthy of respect? (as a starting point; the 'empirical' eventually always intrudes)

[ Parent ]
So really by marvin (2.00 / 0) #13 Tue Jan 01, 2013 at 10:38:38 AM EST
If you're asking: Am I empirical? The answer would be yes, I try to be.

[ Parent ]
No, that's not what I'm saying. by toxicfur (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 10:38:16 AM EST
What I read him saying is that he will initially treat people with respect, and then change his behavior if they don't live up to his expectations. I'm saying that while the emotion may change (to have respect for), the behavior should not change (to treat with respect). I hope that's clearer.
--
The amount of suck that you can put up with can be mind-boggling, but it only really hits you when it then ceases to suck. -- Kellnerin
[ Parent ]
Much clearer, thanks by marvin (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 11:42:47 AM EST
nt

[ Parent ]
Perhaps you are a better person than me. by dmg (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Dec 27, 2012 at 01:55:13 PM EST
Once I lose respect for an individual due to their behaviour toward me/others, then, I have no problem treating them with the same lack of respect they showed me.

I guess I'm just not a group hug / touchy feely hippy kind of guy.
--
dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.

[ Parent ]
2013 goals | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback