Print Story The Birthers must hate Kal-El with a passion.
Boredom
By wiredog (Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 12:48:24 PM EST) (all tags)
Or, Trolling at The Atlantic:
The deranged claim that Barack Obama is ineligible to be president is an intractable symptom of American hebephrenia. Is there no blood level of Haldol that will quiet the birther voice in the air?


The comment thread here is fun, but this is great.

FYI, many of the anti-birthers fanning the flames (or, perhaps, counter-trolling?) hang out here.

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The Birthers must hate Kal-El with a passion. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
All Obama has to do is exhume his mom by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #1 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 01:36:16 PM EST
and grandparents, and analyze their DNA. It's a sign he's hiding something that he hasn't desecrated the bodies of his ancestors.


If only he'd had the good sense by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #3 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 02:33:24 PM EST
to be born white, none of this would be an issue.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
If that was the case by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #11 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 10:03:55 AM EST
we would have elected Arnie as emperor.


An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Or maybe by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #14 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 11:15:08 AM EST
Mitt Romney.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Birthers by duxup (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 02:33:17 PM EST
I figured the birthers had largely been  silenced when even the mainstream media was taking the unusual step of actually stating a fact and the tea party folk had largely decided that at least publicly the birther argument was not going to get them anywhere.

My favorite birther augment was that during the campaign when he went back to Hawaii to see his grandmother that he was going back there to fix or cover up the truth.   I pictured Obama himself repelling from the ceiling of some government building to change a file or something.

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He doesn't have to do that. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 02:35:05 PM EST
The entire state of Hawaii has been in on the conspiracy from the beginning.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
See by duxup (2.00 / 0) #5 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 02:45:30 PM EST
That is what I said but they were all into their Mission Impossible repelling scene thing they were drawing up.
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[ Parent ]
I repel from the ceiling whenever I'm indoors, by ammoniacal (4.00 / 4) #10 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 08:46:00 AM EST
but I just call it "gravity."

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
no, they haven't been silenced by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #6 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 04:35:20 PM EST
my dad is TOTALLY CONVINCED Obama is an "illegal president."

I wish my dad from 15 years ago would time travel to now and start making fun of my dad today.

[ Parent ]
Belivers by duxup (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Apr 13, 2011 at 04:43:50 PM EST
Oh I don't doubt folks believe it and it is alive via e-mail.  I just thought any sort of mainstream need to even acknowledge them / desire to prove it had passed.  
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[ Parent ]
i'm sure the birthers are trolling by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 05:33:47 AM EST
It doesn't matter where Obama was born; his mother was a US Citizen and as far as I know, he automatically 'inherits' US citizenship from his mother no matter what planet he was born on.


Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
Oh, he was definitely born on this planet. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 08:01:08 AM EST
You're not confusing him with the birthers, are you?

The constitution requires a 'natural born citizen' of the US, which is argued to require birth in the US or US territory. Of course, plenty of countries would consider this to be somewhat redundant: Australia's Julia Gillard was born in Wales as a UK citizen, for example. Their head of state was also born in the UK, too, but that one's actually contentious.

[ Parent ]
right. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #27 Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 11:14:35 AM EST
the thing is that a similar argument applied to John McCain.

McCain was born in the canal zone. At the time he was born, US law did not provide automatic citizenship to children born there. The law was changed several years later to retroactively confer birthright citizenship on people like McCain.

So: is he a natural born citizen? I'd say he couldn't be because he was a citizen automatically at the moment of his birth. The Senate voted unaminously to express its sense that he was.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
I knew the Canal Zone came into it somewhere, by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #28 Tue Apr 19, 2011 at 12:51:08 PM EST
but I couldn't place it at all. These things are great fun to discuss. As long as they're not a rearguard attack being fought by bad losers.

[ Parent ]
I'm not sure that's right. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 12:02:03 PM EST
The problem is the way the constitution reads, the president must be a "natural born" citizen, rather than the regular kind.

It's bullshit, of course. The original reason for it was so a british loyalist couldn't be elected president. I really doubt Obama falls into that camp.


An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Citizenship by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 04:38:17 PM EST
Natural Born means simply a US citizen from birth, as opposed to someone who has been awarded US citizenship

Hell what do I know, I'm one of those British (semi) loyalists the US was against when it started


Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
British by jimgon (4.00 / 1) #20 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 08:56:19 PM EST
Just means your grasp of American history is better than 99% of Americans.




---------------
Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
That's been open to dispute by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #21 Fri Apr 15, 2011 at 01:45:49 PM EST
> Natural Born means simply a US citizen from birth 

Not according to the courts; there's been a lot of dispute about those two words, and all the court rulings have stated that the term derives from English common law and that it refers to a child born in US territory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States

I've been unable to find any scholarly material on whether a child born of US parents outside of US territory is "natural born" or not; probably because the question has simply never arisen before. That's why the birthers are so obsessed with proving Obama wasn't actually born in Hawaii - if they could prove that, they could, some how, magically invalidate his election.





An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Basically there are 2 ways to be born a citizen by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Apr 15, 2011 at 01:53:41 PM EST
The first is to be born of US parents, regardless of where you were born ("right of blood"), the second is to be born, period, but to have been born inside US territory.  ("right of soil") (Thus, all the crap about "anchor babies" that came up a few years ago....)

AFAIK, this is different from many european countries where citizenship derives solely from the citizenship of ones parents.  France relies on "right of soil", but that's because their borders changed so frequently.

Digging into this, I was amused to note how many different kinds of citizenship the UK grants.



An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
I like what Pournelle said by wiredog (4.00 / 2) #23 Fri Apr 15, 2011 at 02:17:54 PM EST
Here.
...If it has not been clear from the beginning, let me make it clear that my view is that it's all moot, and has been since the electors cast their votes for President; certainly since the inauguration. It is possible but not likely that had it become clear after the electoral college votes were opened in the House but before the inauguration that Obama was really born in Kenya, President Bush could have prevented the installation of the new President and ordered a new election. It would have been a disastrous decision, but it was at least possible.

Once Obama was sworn in he was President, and the Army had a new Commander in Chief, and no writ runs against a sitting President other than a formal impeachment. The courts have no place in such a constitutional crisis. Any marshal sent by the judiciary to arrest a sitting President had better find a way to get past the Washington garrison. The marshals will need anti-tank weapons. SWAT uniforms won't do. They will have to recruit one of the Legions.

Deposing a sitting President is an act of civil war. The United States does not need another civil war...



Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Bingo. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #24 Fri Apr 15, 2011 at 05:16:11 PM EST
And, please understand - I am not in any sense a birther. Any attempt to undermine a presidential election simply does more damage than it does good. (assuming that the guy really will step down at the end of his term....)

I was simply explaining the wedge that the birthers use to argue with.

An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
On a side note by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #25 Fri Apr 15, 2011 at 05:18:19 PM EST
Have you heard Pournelle on the various TWIT podcasts? It's like discovering my 96 year old grandfather still knows more about computers than I do....

Listening to him talk about his arguments with Ursula K. Le Guin about the Google Books deal was a hoot. 

An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Meh by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #26 Sat Apr 16, 2011 at 09:17:30 AM EST
I like what I heard an anchor on CNN say this week in regards to the birthers, "they're lying."




---------------
Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
Has anyone checked for an overlap by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 10:05:22 AM EST
between birthers and 9-11 truthers? I don't know which would be more interesting - if there was a high level of overlap, or if there was no overlap at all.


An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
My understanding is they are opposite ends by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 11:02:27 AM EST
of the spectrum. The Birthers are hard right, Truthers are hard left.

The problem is that no one in the Democratic Party or the punditocracy (that I know of) took the truthers seriously, but many in the Republican Party and punditocracy (Limbaugh,et. al.) do take the Birthers seriously. Which makes the Republicans look either unserious, or seriously whack.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Speaking of conspiracy theories... by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #16 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 01:46:01 PM EST
I ran into this just now: Trig birtherism just won't die.

I swear, sometimes I can't understand how this country lasted as long as it has.


An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Isn't that andrew Sullivan's hobby horse? by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 02:17:03 PM EST
Always skipped over those entries.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Oh, yes. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Apr 14, 2011 at 03:06:56 PM EST
I'm afraid I stopped taking him seriously after the whole Palin-hate thing.

I mean, honestly, like Obama's birth certificate - what difference does it actually make?

The truthers, at least, are chasing something that would change the world if it were true.

An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
The Birthers must hate Kal-El with a passion. | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback