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By codemonkey uk (Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 06:20:09 PM EST) (all tags)
You have a top politician apparently standing on a platform that includes the policy  of scrapping government funding of education.

Your students riot when an old guy gets fired for not reporting child abuse.




WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
< sick pet | I now live in Arizona. >
Dear America | 41 comments (41 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
The big football campuses riot all the time by lm (4.00 / 1) #1 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:29:49 PM EST
Or at least some of them do. This particular riot just happened to make the news.

Penn State held a riot to celebrate the death of Osama bin Laden, after beating Ohio State in 2005 and again in 2008, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

They don't have quite the reputation that Ohio State did. For a while, the locals hated it when Ohio State won a ball game because there would be a riot. The locals also hated it when Ohio State lost a ball game because there would be a riot.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
isn't Philly the same way? by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:06:25 PM EST
their team wins, they riot.  their team loses, they riot.

[ Parent ]
In the summer of 98 by garlic (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:14:26 AM EST
one of my roommates for the summer got arrested when Penn State had a "the bars are closed but we still want to drink" riot.


[ Parent ]
tehcanically by dev trash (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:48:36 PM EST
Perry's for dropping federal funding of education and letting local and state's do what they did before the Dept of Education was created.

But don't let facts get in the way anything.

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I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR BALLS! ->clock

Perry also isn't a major candidate by lm (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 07:54:01 PM EST
But, to be fair, a number of GOP candidates want to axe the department of education.

The irony is that they are by and large the same people that would like to see a common curriculum such that all Americans have a foundation for shared values.

I'm not quite certain how 50 states, many territories, and the District of Columbia are supposed to pull that off.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Yes, the irony it burns by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:16:15 PM EST
"No Child Left Behind and let's burn down the entity that enforces that!"
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
Hmmmm by dev trash (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 10:29:06 PM EST
Wouldn't that be the SAT or ACT?

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I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR BALLS! ->clock
[ Parent ]
uh, no by lm (2.00 / 0) #15 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:07:07 AM EST
Their are two aspects to the common curriculum movement.

On the one hand, you've got a largely professional group of people that think that the content and method of elementary schools should be more or less standardized such that all kids are given the same set of basic skills required for high school whether they are on a vocational or college prep track. Tests like the SAT and ACT are far too late in the game to drive any sort of standard content and they don't address the methodology at all.

On the other hand, many of the people pushing a common curriculum movement are mostly interested in grade schools as a venue to give students a common cultural and ethical foundation. The idea is that to be a good American, you need to be familiar with uniquely American arts and literature, learn history from an American perspective, and take part in the traditions and mores that make America what it is.

It's this latter group that I mostly referencing. Their second biggest bugbear is that If the content of education is decided at the local level, then regions (like, say, New England or California) might adopt a radical, secularist, liberally un-American view of Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, etc. and leave grade school students with a confused idea of what it means to be an American. The only thing that could be worse in their view is a federal department of education that foists a radical, secularist, liberally un-American view of Christopher Columbus, Thomas Jefferson, Jefferson Davis, etc. upon all states.

I guess I kind of answered my own question there.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Common Core by jimgon (4.00 / 1) #29 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:04:15 AM EST
That's the stated goal, but not the actual goal. 

The actual goal is privatization of education or at least the pieces that the public don't care about.  One core curriculum allows a large national market for educational material.  A corporate provider can produce one set of materials that is applicable nationwide.  Most of the "reforms" to public education since the mid-1990s have been in a similar path.  The end goal is to allow corporations to make more efficient money from public education and the activities at a Federal level are geared toward progressing that agenda. 






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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
Yes by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #33 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 12:43:59 PM EST
And when you are in a state that has high standards in regards to textbooks, you sure as hell don't want the national government, with Texan appointees, deciding what can be in textbooks.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
Federal Dept of Education by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #30 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:07:47 AM EST
I've been in favor of closing the Federal DoE for a long time.  It's one of the common GOP threads that I can get behind.




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
shut. your. wordhole. by ammoniacal (4.00 / 2) #4 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:01:06 PM EST

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

A lot of people I see by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:07:23 PM EST
suggest the Joe Pa (and everybody else involved) should have dialed 911 and reported a crime. The catch is that such a crime is typically handled by the local cops. In State College Pa, you can count on the Nitty Lions Football team being the law in those parts. Expect even less justice there than from the school administration.

I suspect that you could contact the State DA (although there is a good chance of being told to take it locally, followed by an interview with several linemen*), but the simplistic "call the cops" answer is not based in reality.

Wumpus

* for fureners: linemen basically play the "team sumo wrestling" part of US football, and tend to be 200 kilos of mostly muscle (ok, 200 kilos would be pro-bowl, but the college players look pretty close to that in person).

Honestly by ucblockhead (4.00 / 4) #8 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:18:17 PM EST
If you witness a child-rape, the first thing you should do is to stop it if it is in your power.

Note in this case, one witness was a 28 year old ex-football player, and the child-rapist was a man in his sixties.  He damn well should have stopped it, and should feel utter and complete shame for not doing so.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
Exactly. by technician (4.00 / 2) #9 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:04:08 PM EST
I mean, goddamn.

[ Parent ]
Interesting question? by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #23 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 06:32:26 PM EST
If someone did decide to stop one of these child rapes, would anybody know? The assumption appears to be that nobody stopped him. Doing this would at least stop him one time (longer if PA has easily available CCWs).

Wumpus

[ Parent ]
I would presume by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #26 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:40:56 PM EST
That people would wonder about the bloodied face.

As angry as I am just thinking about it from eight years and 2500 miles...if it was me present, people would know.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
On my lunch break ... by lm (2.00 / 0) #13 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 05:21:13 AM EST
... the general consensus was that the first witness ought to have beat the holy hell out of Sandusky.

But, as for Paterno, I don't think he'd have much to fear from being "interviewed" by linemen if he went to the cops.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Without wanting to be jingoistic by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #18 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:27:06 AM EST
That doesn't exactly contradict codemonkey's thesis that something very wrong is going on here.

[ Parent ]
No by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #28 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 07:56:07 AM EST
I just felt that any discussion I've noticed seemed to imply that dialing 911 was a possible solution. I wanted to point out how unlikely that is in a place slightly more intelligent than utube comments.

From what I've read, either the cops or some sort of "child services" knew what was going on. They also knew football was more important in those parts.

Wumpus

[ Parent ]
Anyone involved in the covering up of child abuse by codemonkey uk (2.00 / 0) #41 Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 10:26:54 AM EST
Be it through action or in action, is in part guilty.

If you must go to the administration first, because that's policy, then you do so.

But then if they don't act, you go to the law.

And if they don't act, you go to the press.

And if they press don't act, you go fucking vigilante on the fucker and then present the evidence in court as part of your defence.

But that's just how I feel about it.

--- Thad ---
Almost as Smart As you.

[ Parent ]
FYI by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 08:15:12 PM EST
Scrapping the Department of Education is not the same as scrapping government funding of education.

In the US, most educational funding is at the local level.  Each local school district is funded by the local community, usually through property taxes.  Each state then kicks in money on top of that.

The US department of Education exists mostly to enforce standards on the states, often without even bothering to provide the funds necessary to meet them.  According the wikipedia page, the feds represent about 8.5% of educational funding.  What that doesn't mention is that the department of education likes to enforce programs that cost more than that.

Note that the federal department of education is only about thirty years old.  It really just serves as a bureaucracy that sits on top of the state bureaucracies, which in turn sit on top of local bureaucracies.

Personally, I think we'd be better off if the Department of Education was disbanded and the funds were made up at the state level.

In general, you have to remember as a non-American viewing calls to disband this or that Federal program, is that state governments in the US are much stronger than similar entities in Europe.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

with Perry by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Nov 10, 2011 at 09:11:16 PM EST
my favorite part is how he totally f'd up educational funding in Texas, because he (and the rest of the legislature) wanted to go home/on vacation.  They were under court order to stay in session until they came up with a funding plan.  They completely and totally wrecked the educational system here.

[ Parent ]
Some states probably would be better off by lm (4.00 / 1) #14 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 05:25:11 AM EST
Maryland, for example, tends to exceed federal standards. The department of education just adds additional bureaucratic hoops that MD has to jump through.

Other states, like Ohio for example, would be even worse off then they already are.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Probably true by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #20 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:49:04 AM EST
I am likely biased as I also live in a state that has generally had high standards, though regrettably our funding has gone into the toilet.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
Nope by Gedvondur (4.00 / 1) #17 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 09:16:43 AM EST
There's a reason we need the DoE.

Local school boards are INSANE.  And the states proved that they couldn't reasonably set standards themselves. That's why we have it to begin with.  If anything should be abolished it's local elected school boards.  I'm convinced that they are the reason we have so many problems.  You just can't take John Q Business and Susie Homemaker and put them in a position of responsiblity for a function THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT and expect it to turn out to be anything better than most HOAs are.

If you want to talk about reforming the DoE, I'd listen to that.  The complaint about unfunded mandate is valid for certain.




"So I will be hitting the snatch hard, I think, tonight." - gzt
[ Parent ]
The Massachusetts Approach by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #31 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:20:25 AM EST
In Massachusetts the state is in control of education.  The local school committee has budget and policy oversight, but no direct authority over the schools.  The schools are run by a district superintendent who is hired by the school committee, but essentially works for the state department of education.  Educational requirements are set at a state level by a board of education appointed by the governor and headed by a secretary of education.  Massachusetts is tops in just about every education measure in the United States because of the local efforts.  The Federal efforts are a hindrance at best. 

I've been in favor of disbanding the Federal Department of Education for a long time.  They only add bureaucracy to the system and add limited to no value.  Closed the Fed DoE and providing block grants would be better.  Also, I've said this before, I could give a damn about Mississippi.  If the people of Mississippi want to live in a provery stricken ignorant backwater, then so be it.  And yeah, I realize this is an unpopular view.




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
Ah by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #38 Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 02:26:52 PM EST
The american dream encapsulated. I 'm fine, that other people are not is their fault.

I would more hope the rest of the country could be raised by Federal DoE rather than your bit lowered but I guess too many of the wrong ppl give a crap for that to happen?

[ Parent ]
Technically by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #39 Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 07:50:43 PM EST
There's nothing preventing the states from surpassing the Federal standards.  The problem is that the Federal standards are set intentionally low so that the low achieving states can pass the standards.  It won't change the fact that if the state government of Mississippi or Arkansas or Texas isn't willing to spend more local dollars on education, then they won't compete.  The Federal government can only tie requirements to money it provides.  The Federal government can not compel states to spend their own money on education.  Nor would I want the Federal Government to do that.  Taxing and redistribution are fine, but direct coercion would give me a nose bleed.




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
[ Parent ]
HOA's by garlic (4.00 / 1) #37 Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 11:36:46 AM EST
are an excellent argument against democracy.


[ Parent ]
Mine has certainly convinced me by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #40 Mon Nov 14, 2011 at 09:51:53 AM EST
To never run for office.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
In Paterno's defense by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 10:10:22 AM EST
Malini posted a link on FB that implies Paterno was ethically and legally right in his limited actions. In short, he contacted his superiors and saw an investigation start. Doing more may have hampered or endangered the investigation. We don't know the facts yet.

An important date is May 1999, when Paterno told Sandusky that he would not get the head coach job. Shortly after, Sandusky resigned and never worked in college football again.

That's odd. Sandusky was the defensive genius who figured out how to shutdown Vinny Testaverde in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl, and was long expected to succeed Paterno.

We now there was an investigation about Sandusky showering with a pre-teenage boy in 1998, it never went anywhere and the DA went missing years ago. I would assume Paterno was investigated.

I would assume that Sandusky got other offers, unless the grapevine knew of his abhorrent behavior. Or maybe Sandusky preferred his new job, where he could touch young boys'...lives.

Penn State students do riot often. It's a small, isolated city with little to do by drink, study and exercise.


'That Lawyer Dude' link by lm (2.00 / 0) #24 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:53:50 PM EST
I find it disappointing. It promises a strong more and ethical argument but only supplies a legal argument.

The "moral and ethical" dimensions of the argument basically reduce to one's legal obligation not to impede an ongoing investigation combined with some fairly dubious premises. There is no real argument for a moral or ethical obligation to not impede the hypothetical ongoing investigation or any analysis of factors that might might morally or ethically obligate one to act even if it does impede an ongoing investigation. Rather, there is te presumption that legality implies morality and, consequently, there is no need to offer a moral or ethical argument beyond what one's legal obligations are.

The strongest argument in Paterno's defense on the moral and ethical level, I think, is your simple observation that "We don't know [all] the facts yet." While it is difficult to imagine an argument that he may have been in such a position that simply reporting the allegations concerning Sandusky to his superiors and doing nothing (or at least very little) more fulfilled all of his moral obligations, it could be the case that once all the facts come to light that we can understand how it might be so.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Perry isn't a top politician. by the mariner (4.00 / 1) #21 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:13:34 PM EST
He's a jackass from the sticks who was briefly considered as a candidate to lose the next presidential election because Republicans can't rally around one of the two non-jackasses running in their primary (that'd be Romney and Huntsman).

I don't get the Paterno thing. I always thought he looked like a sleaze and it turns out he is one. People just get especially upset when they can no longer fail to see what they realize should've been obvious all along. 

By the way, Euroboy, why don't you wait until you can confidently say the Eurozone isn't going to destroy the world financial system before you make another post like this?


Destroying the world financial system? by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 12:21:19 PM EST
There aren't many developed countries that can put their hand on heart and say they didn't contribute to the current fuckup. Canada's one, I guess.

But tu quoque is a lame argument either way.

[ Parent ]
Is there some sort of moral equivalence there? by lm (4.00 / 1) #25 Fri Nov 11, 2011 at 07:57:57 PM EST
With your last sentence, you seem to be saying that making bad financial decisions is the moral equivalent of a sixty year old man raping a 10 year old.

But I do agree with you that Rick Perry is not a major candidate. He is, however, more of a major candidate than Huntsman.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
With your first sentence, by the mariner (2.00 / 0) #34 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 11:45:37 PM EST
You appear to be trolling. To ask "You have 60 year old men in your country raping 10 year olds, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?" would be comically stupid, since presumably the same is going on in the UK. Luckily, that's not what codemonkey is asking. He is asking something slightly less stupid: "WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH STUDENTS PROTESTING THE FIRING OF AN OLD GUY WHO HEARD ANOTHER OLD GUY FUCKED A YOUNG BOY AND DIDN'T ADEQUATELY ADDRESS THE SITUATION?" 

Boredom with arguing on the internet dictates that I allow the reader to work out the rest of what I might have said here. 

[ Parent ]
If you say so by lm (2.00 / 0) #35 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 11:57:25 PM EST
If you want to end the discussion with the ad hominem that I'm a troll followed by the observation that discussions on the Internet are boring anyway, that's fine. I won't try to stop you.

But if you were actually trying to contribute to the discussion, I think that it's fair to say that you missed my point entirely. If you don't care to work out what I mean by that, I'll be glad to clarify.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
no, thanks. by the mariner (2.00 / 0) #36 Sun Nov 13, 2011 at 12:02:24 AM EST
i'm content to leave it at "are you saying financial collapse = child rape?" 

[ Parent ]
Ah, no by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #27 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 02:41:28 AM EST
He is from the bit of europe that doesn't think it is european.

[ Parent ]
What's wrong with us? by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #32 Sat Nov 12, 2011 at 10:25:20 AM EST
I hope that's rhetorical.  I don't know that I could feet a thirty thousand word essay in this comment box.




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
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