Print Story I hate the Dark Ages
By gzt (Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:23:47 PM EST) gzt, work, bah, large hadron collider, science (all tags)
The Dark Ages were pretty awesome, I think it really is rather terrible that people have been soured on the era by the propagandistic terms in which it is described. They weren't dark. There were a couple rough centuries, but a lot of things got down and the long march of "progress", ugh, continued.

Annoyed a little about class: it seemed, from what she said, that we were only being graded on presenting homework problems and weren't turning it in becuase there was no grader. Accordingly, I only had it done in a rough draft form - sketching it out with cross-outs and such, skipping steps, ignoring calculations, not including much narration. Just doing it to get it done and learn from it, not writing it out to turn it in. She had us turn it in. In the presentations, she just had people sketch out the answers. Well, whatevs.

Not really looking forward to the conference next week, but it will be decent. I think I'll manage to get back in time for class both class days, but am not sure whether I'll be able to train on Tuesday.

Wow, an all-you-can-eat buffet:

I remarked somewhere in an offhand way that Christianity invented science, which caused some kerfuffle. This brought up the title of the diary. I hate the anti-medieval propaganda of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, historians are finding more and more how false it is.

Am glad Teh Wife is reading blogs discrediting folk anti-science. Not that she was into any of that stuff (antivaccine or whatever, though she was interested in the idea of home birth and other such things), but it's good to get some critical framework up. Though I do need to think of some good books to recommend for layman on the scientific method and statistics, not to actually learn statistics, but to learn what people are doing when they do statistics and what they actually mean. And the continuum of types of experiments from physics experiments to biological experiments to medical experiments and social science experiments - why the types of conclusions differ and stuff like that. Not to be snobbish, but drug trials for psychiatric medicines work a lot differently from experiments in the large hadron collider (note: originally had "hardon" typo (another note: "Large Hardon Collider" sounds like a great name for porn)) and both work quite differently from data mining the GSS for use in the social sciences.

Important thing to remember about weak force interactions: either a lepton or a quark can absorb or emit a Z boson.

Work: bah.

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I hate the Dark Ages | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
the understanding historians have by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:35:06 PM EST
of late antiquity and the early middle ages has undergone an enormous revolution in the last 30 years.

unfortunately, high school history textbooks haven't caught up.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

home birth? by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:48:49 PM EST
Is there something you're not posting for the whole internet to read?

He's planning on using a webcam, not a diary by marvin (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:51:48 PM EST
Livecast in hi-def rather than writing about it. The edited version will be posted on Youtube later.

[ Parent ]
No. by gzt (4.00 / 1) #7 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:07:46 PM EST
HuSi would be the first to know, but, like all young girls, Teh Wife is interested in making babies at some point nad reads about the process.

[ Parent ]
I was talking to my sister in law about this by garlic (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 06:15:09 PM EST
we agreed that while ladies have been giving birth at home for centuries, they've also been dying during these births for centuries as well, so a hospital backup plan is good to have at a minimum.

[ Parent ]
yeah by gzt (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 11:25:49 PM EST
higher risk for baby and mother doing it at home. and direct entry midwives are not cool. there are two types of midwives in america: ones with education (certified nurse midwives) and ones who don't know shit (certified professional midwives, otherwise known as direct entry midwives). anyway, it's all well and good if you want to give birth at home, but you just have to accept that there are things that can happen that will kill your baby at home but would not kill your baby in the hospital.

[ Parent ]
True by ReallyEvilCanine (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 06:03:12 AM EST
But there are also things that can kill your baby in a hospital that wouldn't at home, like MRSA and staph and 9 fucking nurse-midwives all doing different things, not talking to each other, ignoring the mother and repeatedly sending the baby into full collapse as a result of their non-communication, scaring the fuck out of the already scared mother who they all completely ignore as they discuss their plans for the weekend while wheeling her in for an emergency C-section, invasive surgery necessitated by their utter incompetence.

Or so I've heard. YMMV.

the internet: amplifier of stupidity -- discordia

[ Parent ]
you buy car insurance right ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 09:53:02 AM EST
"just in case". That's why you have kids in hospitals.

Do you like playing russian roulette too ?

[ Parent ]
Really depends on the hospital by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #23 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:06:05 AM EST
But maybe people can blame socialism for that...

[ Parent ]
granted, REC by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #26 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:19:13 AM EST
has had some very bad experiences in various hospitals...

[ Parent ]
Also by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #29 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:38:49 AM EST
I would never have children in Ireland. Not based on what I know about the hospital near my parents. It isn't a medical cross referenced study like in the Netherlands as the Netherlands is much more advanced. OTOH, you don't need one not to be put in a bed still carrying other people's bloodstains. Not to mention the malpractice issue on unnecessary hysterectomies.

[ Parent ]
Perhaps you mean unwanted hysterectomies? by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #30 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 02:40:18 PM EST
Because I think the number of "unnecessary" hysterectomies is a very, very small number. In fact, I'd like the number of them to increase. The world needs fewer morons.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
Well put it like this by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #31 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 02:45:56 PM EST
The consultant had a psychological issue that unless he removed wombs, women would die. And nobody stopped him. Or questioned. And since the women themselves were already under, they certainly weren't consulted.

[ Parent ]
This is technically true by sugar spun (4.00 / 1) #20 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 06:15:08 AM EST
but not when you look at the studies in detail. The main study cited by people who talk about the risks of home birth is an Australian one which failed to exclude spontaneous or premature unattended/unassisted home deliveries where there was no midwife present at all - frequently these are late-term miscarriages rather than true birth processes and so should have been excluded. The Netherlands show that with a qualified midwife the risks for a healthy woman carrying a healthy baby are lower at home than in hospital. About 12-15% of women end up transferred to hospital for things that are problematic at home or in hospital: maternal exhaustion, failure to progress or failure to cope with pain. There's a BMJ-published study showing the basic numbers.

It's also worth remembering that labour progresses faster and easier for everyone when the mother is comfortable and convinced that she is in a safe environment to give birth (apparently an evolutionary thing). Quite often a hospital is a very unpleasant place to be in when you're feeling vulnerable and can be significantly more so if your midwife happens to be a bitch. And believe me, it happens, and when it does you can work for 13 hours and still not get anywhere.

[ Parent ]
Netherlands a bad example by gzt (2.00 / 0) #24 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:16:01 AM EST
High perinatal mortality rate, leading to recent reduction in home birth rate.

Also, rebuttal article: Conclusion: Less medical intervention during planned home birth is associated with a tripling of the neonatal mortality rate.

[ Parent ]
and another article: by gzt (2.00 / 0) #25 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:18:26 AM EST

note that this is about CNMs, the ones who actually have an education, rather than CPMs, who don't.

[ Parent ]
two things about netherlands by gzt (2.00 / 0) #27 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:28:17 AM EST "The Netherlands has a relatively poor position in Europe when it comes to health at the time of birth, in other words, perinatal health." More detail about the Dutch.

[ Parent ]
is that what they call it now ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #21 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 09:49:18 AM EST
Sheeet.. I'll just tell the mrs I was "reading about the process of making babies on the internet".. Surely that will go over well..

[ Parent ]
Good news by duxup (4.00 / 1) #28 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 10:33:43 AM EST
The internet is full of information on that topic, although most not in text.

[ Parent ]
Large Hardon Collider by marvin (4.00 / 3) #3 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:50:02 PM EST
has been confirmed as a weapon type in Duke Nukem Forever.

I don't doubt by sasquatchan (4.00 / 1) #5 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 03:59:12 PM EST
there already is a large hardon collider movie filmed already.

Did someone call for a plumber by georgeha (4.00 / 3) #6 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:00:20 PM EST
for your liquid helium tank?

[ Parent ]
Well, the ancient Greeks invented science. by ammoniacal (4.00 / 1) #8 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:08:30 PM EST
Or perhaps the Chinese, but really, who gives a fuck about those "Middle Kingdom" fucks anyway?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

sort of by gzt (4.00 / 1) #9 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:17:25 PM EST
They really weren't keen on experimentation. A lot of what we would now call the "scientific method" was a medieval development, much of the legwork down my Muslims, but finally refined by the Europeans.

[ Parent ]
"my Muslims" ? by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #10 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:20:52 PM EST
Something you want to tell us, Sekrit gzt?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
should read "done by" by gzt (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:31:03 PM EST
and not "down my".

[ Parent ]
I work with a Muslim guy by cam (2.00 / 0) #32 Sat Sep 11, 2010 at 08:41:13 PM EST
big accented fellow from the US north east. He often talks about his 'peeps', which you think means Arabs, Afghans, whatever, what he means is Connecticut. His peeps in Connecticut. Funny.

Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic

[ Parent ]
It's Arabic for 'band of hired killers.' by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #33 Sun Sep 12, 2010 at 12:02:02 AM EST
You know, just like in America.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
(Comment Deleted) by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #34 Sun Sep 12, 2010 at 12:02:03 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by ammoniacal

[ Parent ]
Greeks by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 04:58:50 PM EST
The Greeks invented philosophy, and it took intellectual thought a millenium to recover enough to invent science.

OK, well, the big problem was that the post-Greek thinkers bound Greek thought in iron and ignored pragmatics.
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
greeks weren't pragmatic by gzt (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:09:16 PM EST
They were not empiricists.

Okay, what you said is true about Ptolemy's legacy. Ptolemy was awesome and nobody understood him until Copernicus because of his great genius.

[ Parent ]
Pragmatism by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:48:50 PM EST
They were more pragmatic than the people who followed and took their ideas as fact.  (See Archimedes.)
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
I lump ME under science. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Sep 09, 2010 at 05:12:10 PM EST
Yeah, I'm lazy, but that shit counts in my book.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
Dark Ages by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #18 Fri Sep 10, 2010 at 04:44:39 AM EST
1st term of uni lectures, 1995. A full week given over to 'We don't call it the Dark Ages anymore'.

Mind you, some of the science was a bit daft. They were thorough and rigourous but on completely the wrong base. You wonder what type of scholarly work someone like Bede could have turned out with access to more modern findings.

I hate the Dark Ages | 34 comments (34 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback