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By wiredog (Tue May 11, 2010 at 01:08:39 PM EST) (all tags)
Partly it's an attempt to avoid a repeat of this, with French and German banks in the hot seat rather than Wall Street trading firms.


From the Post this morning:
this is no ordinary piece of Euro-bureaucracy: This is the kind of thing a surrendering field marshal signs in a railway car in the forest at the end of a bloody war.

...

Though the European Union has always required a partial surrender of sovereignty from its member states, Greece no longer has much sovereignty at all. ... I don't believe anybody, least of all the Greeks, knew that the European Union had so much power over its member states.

...Euro-neo-colonialism, in all its glory, has arrived.


In all the excitement over Greek finances, French and German (and USian) bank bailouts, and other European problems, I keep coming back to this:
It has been 65 years and 3 days since the last shooting war in Europe ended. This is, afaik, a record length of time for peace in Europe. Not a modern record, an all time in recorded history record.

So the EU is doing some good.

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The Greek Bailout. | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
We've had more recent wars than that, I'm afraid by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #1 Tue May 11, 2010 at 01:23:02 PM EST
I've got stamps in my passport from crossing European land borders that were definitely violently contested in the last 20 years.

The thing with Greece is that 10 years ago, along with the other countries of the Euro zone, is that it signed the Stability and Growth Pact, promising a certain level of fiscal stability in return for the benefits of a low inflation, low interest currency. And given that it joined a currency union, surely it had to follow through on its responsibilities to its (also pretty spendthrift) partners, so this is not a new action by the EU, it's the consequence of an action Greece signed up for.

On a similar point, it's worth wondering what Breaker would thing of the UK signing up to a pact not to run an excessive deficit.

I was going to mention Kosovo by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #3 Tue May 11, 2010 at 01:54:44 PM EST
but my rage level is pretty high today, and it might have come off poorly.

Though It has been 65 years and 3 days since the last large scaleshooting war in Europe ended. 

works for me.


[ Parent ]
I'd say that the war in Yugoslavia by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #7 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:07:06 PM EST
was pretty much as big as any European wars except world wars 1 and 2. That's the early '90s one. You know, siege of Sarajevo, Srbenica massacre and the like.

[ Parent ]
Compared to the Napoleonic Wars? by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #9 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:11:24 PM EST
The Seven Years War?


[ Parent ]
OK, I didn't have a great perspective on that. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #11 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:31:54 PM EST
but it seems to me that about 75,000 deaths, half of them civilian, comprises a large scale war to me.

[ Parent ]
Yugoslavia isn't Europe. by gzt (2.00 / 0) #4 Tue May 11, 2010 at 01:56:11 PM EST
It's Slavic.

And civil wars don't count, anyway.

[ Parent ]
I missed the sarcasm mark, right? by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #6 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:04:46 PM EST


[ Parent ]
No, No, Greece is European by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #8 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:09:37 PM EST
Yugoslavia not.


[ Parent ]
Well, yeah, by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #10 Tue May 11, 2010 at 03:26:38 PM EST
but I still know that I'd rather have a discussion about politics with a Serb than a Greek.

[ Parent ]
you don't understand realdemocracy! by infinitera (2.00 / 0) #14 Tue May 11, 2010 at 06:22:51 PM EST

[…] a professional layabout. Which I aspire to be, but am not yet. — CheeseburgerBrown

[ Parent ]
If only it were that. by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #16 Tue May 11, 2010 at 06:29:22 PM EST
Rather than the Greeks not understanding it.

[ Parent ]
yeah, I was being somewhat sarcastic by gzt (2.00 / 0) #12 Tue May 11, 2010 at 05:53:10 PM EST
Riffing on the fact that people just kind of forget about Eastern Europe or deride it.

[ Parent ]
Good point. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #5 Tue May 11, 2010 at 02:00:30 PM EST
And how the hell did I forget Yugoslavia, and a few other violent collapses in the 90's? Guess I'm thinking of "wars between countries" rather than civil wars.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Well is the EU by duxup (4.00 / 1) #2 Tue May 11, 2010 at 01:34:48 PM EST
I know there are a lot agreements about who is in charge of what in the EU but sovereignty never struck me as a think you get from the EU.  Just by the organization's nature by joining you've given some up.  I'm sure there is plenty of political double talk out there but for the organization to really mean anything you're going to give a fair amount of that up.

____
Its so interesting. by dmg (4.00 / 1) #13 Tue May 11, 2010 at 06:14:53 PM EST
It's not just the Greeks that have had their sovereignty challenged, the Germans have too, since there is mass public opposition to the bailout amongst ordinary Germans. The very idea that you can have currency union without political union is plainly ridiculous, as Soros proved when he forced the GPB out of the ERM. The UK is well off out of it, although it it is going to end up paying for some of this bailout via IMF etc. I don't see how Greece can remain in the Euro. But you can be sure the Eurocrats will be happy to spend as much (newly printed) cash as they can on maintaining the fiction. Massive inflation ahoy!


--
dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.
The joys of machine translation by lm (4.00 / 1) #15 Tue May 11, 2010 at 06:29:11 PM EST
(I was saving this for a diary but who knows if I'll ever get around to posting it.)

I've taken up reading Le Monde again to practice for my translation exam in French that I hope to take this summer. I compared what I had to Google's translator. I was entertained by the sentence: "That's a lot of snake swallowed by the European Central Bank."


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
Meh. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #17 Tue May 11, 2010 at 08:29:23 PM EST
It's nothing that can't be fixed by a good land war in Asia.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

The Greek Bailout. | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback