Print Story I just don't know how strong I am.
Sport
By gzt (Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 01:47:17 PM EST) gzt, rain, strength training (all tags)
I have a meet on Saturday. I'm very much in the dark about how well I can do in it because my training has been messed up for a variety of reasons, and I can't properly test this week without interfering with my ability to display strength on Saturday.


Oh well. I DLed 160kg for an easy set of 5 yesterday, so I'm guessing I'll easily hit 180 and, if the stars align, hit 190, but I'm in the dark about everything else. I have openers chosen for the others, but I know I'll be leaving weight on the bar for the squat and factors other than strength will determine bench performance.

An old friend from high school is moving to town and wants help moving, so Teh Wife and I are helping her move in Friday. There will be beer and pizza, so I will be there.

Weekend was good. Pascha and all that jazz, then lots of food. I had hoped to get some training in on Sunday morning, but there just wasn't time, so, whatevs. I had been up until like 4:30am. Very good times.

I bought some RAM for the desktop (2x2 GB). Prices have gone up since I got the computer last August. The email confirmation I got for buying the desktop had an ad in it for this much RAM for $40. I ended up paying about $110 and couldn't find anything much better, pricewise, for stuff that would work. Paid almost entirely with gift certificates. There's a $25 rebate, but you can't always trust that to go through. Anyway. I currently have 1GB in there, so this will be much better.

For some reason I got dragged into a couple of discussions about strength training this weekend. This friend of mine got a lot of bad ideas about proper programming from a friend of his who is a competitive bodybuilder (pyramid style training, too-specific splits, quasi-religious ideas about training), but also got some very good ideas from him (full depth high bar squats, full range of motion on all lifts, the need to be strong, barbell training in general). I told him what I do, which is simple progressive strength training with sets across, squatting 3x per week, and typically doing full body workouts rather than splits (though simple upper-lower splits work well, too) and that if he wants to know more I can lend him a helpful book or two. He balked at the idea of squatting 3x per week. You don't have to go heavy all the time, though... Another guy was talking about how he had been doing P90X for the last year, which is pretty good. A lot of people rag on P90X (for instance, Crossfitters), but it has several good things about it: it has good conformance, it's easy psychologically, you're doing stuff that's mostly worthwhile, you'll get the results advertised, and you won't get injured (incidentally, it beats Crossfit in all of those, especially the last). The only real downside is that there is no way it can get you as strong as you need to be (a problem shared with Crossfit).

Anyway. I, apparently, have a meeting in a little bit that I have forgotten about, so I'm eating the lunch I packed right now. After the meeting, I will get some milk.

Oh! There was some hail on the way in! It was awesome. Very strong rain, too.

< Attend Satraps and Subjects! | A weekend. >
I just don't know how strong I am. | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
as strong as you need to be ? by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #1 Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 02:01:16 PM EST
to do what ?

lift heavy things by georgeha (4.00 / 2) #2 Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 02:34:05 PM EST
haven't you been paying attention?


[ Parent ]
tautology 101 by sasquatchan (4.00 / 2) #3 Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 03:26:40 PM EST
yes, I joined that group.

[ Parent ]
to live? by gzt (2.00 / 0) #4 Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 03:41:09 PM EST
A non-elderly man of normal height without injuries should be able to deadlift 315#. It's just useful. It's not particularly strong. It's quite attainable in a reasonable amount of time. People should be even stronger than that, but it's hard to quantify exactly since there is such a wide range of genetic potential, but the 315 is usually attainable. P90X will not take you there unless you're very close. Crossfit as typically done might not since it is not a strength program.

[ Parent ]
"Should be" by ammoniacal (4.00 / 2) #5 Tue Apr 06, 2010 at 09:57:38 PM EST
Why?

Are you expecting the imminent collapse of society? No more firearms to defeat a raptor invasion from the center of the Earth? Forced gladitorial combat at the behest of our new alien warlord masters?

Seriously, beyond the possible safety consideration of lifting your own weight, you're strongly advocating for time spent on a pursuit less useful than the art of buggy-whip making.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
human bodies were built for exertion by gzt (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 08:48:09 AM EST
and physical strength is a rather important commodity.

[ Parent ]
Strength, to a point. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #10 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 11:57:03 AM EST
Our bodies are quite utilitarian, and one could easily argue that they developed primarily for the endurance necessary for following scarce resources across the veldt, not for flipping over parked cars. Any heroic feats of strength are better served communally, with the assistance of our huge pulsing brains.

Pound for pound, chimps are stronger than us, yet we run the joint. So much for your vaunted squatting regimen, eh?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
not just pound for pound. by gzt (4.00 / 1) #11 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 12:04:44 PM EST
chimp attacks are quite deadly. they can tear you limb from limb.

and even those endurance-running predecessors had a baseline of strength that most people lack. again, i'm not advocating a car-flipping level of strength. the level of strength i advocate takes a few months to gain and is easy to maintain afterwards. it's a durable quality. cardiorespiratory endurance is easy-come-easy-go.

[ Parent ]
But men and women by TheophileEscargot (4.00 / 1) #12 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 03:12:32 PM EST
Are both subject to the same evolutionary pressures as far as basic survival goes: obtaining food and escaping predators.

In species where the male is bigger and stronger than the female, the reason is that there is some tendency to polygyny, which means the males end up in an evolutionary arms race to defeat other males in combat.

So in practical terms, women's bodies are probably far better optimized than men's, which is probably why they live longer. So as long as a man is as strong than a healthy woman, he's probably strong enough for health and survival.

In terms of physical combat with other males, you probably want to end up looking more like an MMA fighter or a boxer than a bodybuilder or powerlifter; and they seem to put more emphasis on cardio than weightlifting.
--
It is unlikely that the good of a snail should reside in its shell: so is it likely that the good of a man should?

[ Parent ]
they put more emphasis... by gzt (4.00 / 1) #13 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 03:26:44 PM EST
...on skills training and staying in their weight class, but they do include strength training. this is actually something i don't particularly care about but still hear quite a bit of, since the gym i'm at has a lot of mma folks and i hear elsewhere from people who compete decently in things like judo - strength is pretty handy (one of the 70's big guys just won a state championship in judo). I'm not and will never say every athlete needs to train like a strength athlete in order to be the best they can be. That's absurd. But when we're discussing athletes, for most non-endurance sports, strength training is a significant part of their, um, strength and conditioning program and is recognized for its value.

But I don't care much about evolution. And modern women need to be stronger than they are.

[ Parent ]
"Stronger than they need to be." by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 03:40:59 PM EST
Judge's score: 8/10
I like the simple nostalgic touch at the finish.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
i'm not always around to open jars. by gzt (4.00 / 1) #15 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 04:00:36 PM EST
and strength gets very handy when you're 60-80 years old. you're thinking about this from the perspective of a young turk in the prime of your 40s, but i have a longevity bias.

[ Parent ]
So all those times by ni (4.00 / 2) #16 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 05:28:21 PM EST
when you remark on how useful it is to be very strong, what you actually mean is that it's going to be real convenient to be able to open jars when you're 80?

That all seems less impressive than I'd imagined it the first time. I figured you walked around lifting cars off of babies and that sort of thing. Not every day, mind you, but once or twice a week.


"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM

[ Parent ]
Well, neither. by gzt (4.00 / 1) #17 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 05:38:47 PM EST
You don't need to deadlift 600# (that would be nice), but you need to deadlift more than 300#. Strength is important throughout your life and becoming strong now means sarcopenia and osteopenia will not be as bad later.

[ Parent ]
It seems more impressive to me by lm (4.00 / 1) #18 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 05:47:58 PM EST
I think being able to open up a jar at 80 years old is a very noble goal.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
You're right. by ni (4.00 / 1) #19 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 05:50:21 PM EST
I hate babies too.


"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM
[ Parent ]
It's not so much that I hate babies by lm (2.00 / 0) #20 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 09:34:53 PM EST
But imagine A Prayer for Owen Meany without the the event Owen and John prepared for all of their lives ever happening. I'm not certain that there would be any nobility there.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Traitor. /nt by ni (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 12:13:22 AM EST



"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM
[ Parent ]
the jar opening thing drives me fucking bananas by misslake (2.00 / 0) #23 Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 07:15:37 PM EST
IT'S NOT THAT WE AREN'T STRONG ENOUGH TO OPEN THE FUCKING JARS!!!
THE JARS HAVE LIDS TOO BIG TO GET A GOOD GRIP ON WITH OUR DAINTY SOFT LADY-LIKE TARSELS AND METATARSALS!!!

[ Parent ]
Eventually people with big enough hands... by gzt (2.00 / 0) #24 Mon Apr 12, 2010 at 08:36:59 PM EST
...lose the strength. Unless they're strong.

[ Parent ]
can you run 3 miles by sasquatchan (2.00 / 0) #8 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 09:22:54 AM EST
with out stopping, walking, or otherwise breaking pace ?

Can you do 5 non-assisted, correct-form pullups ? dips ?

There's plenty of "what a man/woman should be able to do" ..

[ Parent ]
yes by gzt (2.00 / 0) #9 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 10:08:44 AM EST
those are also good things to do.

for the 3 miles, yes, though it would take some experimentation to figure out the right pace to do it with even splits. But I try to keep conditioning to do a 25 minute 5K (a very low threshold that I'm not at at the moment, sadly) at almost any given time. I've thought about trying to get into condition to get a 300 on any of the military fitness tests, but I just don't have a reason to run multiple miles at a 6 minute pace or do pushups/situps that fast. I don't have 20 pullups right now, but I should. I definitely have 5 now that I've lost a few pounds...


[ Parent ]
Use double the food supply he needs. by ambrosen (4.00 / 2) #6 Wed Apr 07, 2010 at 04:28:55 AM EST
Apparently.

[ Parent ]
None of us know how strong we are by lm (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Apr 08, 2010 at 10:08:59 PM EST
Measuring tensile strength is, regrettably, not very survivable for human beings.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
I just don't know how strong I am. | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback