Print Story Canadian healthcare
Politics
By muchagecko (Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:11:59 AM EST) (all tags)
I've got a friend who says all Canadians hate their healthcare system.


I've never heard one of you guys complain.

Is it that bad? i would like to know.
< Things that kind of blow: | on this day >
Canadian healthcare | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Bitching about healthcare by anonimouse (4.00 / 1) #1 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 04:30:40 AM EST
 I recall reading that the US has excellence provided you can afford it, whereas state healthcare systems such as the UK provide universal coverage at a lower standard.

For this reason, no one will ever be entirely happy with their healthcare system.


Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
as well as by bobdole (4.00 / 2) #2 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 04:44:12 AM EST
bitching is by nature ego-centric and most bitchers only have experienced one healthcare system which makes it hard to compare. What seems to be a big deal to many users of the communist european healthcare models (i.e. pretty much free for all, to various extents) is waiting lines and patient choice (2nd opinion etc.) - whilst it seems to me that the usian debate is much more focused on cost.

Those who don't care about cost would be the ones that would be able pay their way out of the waiting line, regardless of system.


-- The revolution will not be televised.
[ Parent ]
We have those same problems in the U.S. by theboz (4.00 / 1) #10 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:09:58 AM EST
What seems to be a big deal to many users of the communist european healthcare models (i.e. pretty much free for all, to various extents) is waiting lines and patient choice (2nd opinion etc.) - whilst it seems to me that the usian debate is much more focused on cost.

It takes months to see a doctor here if you are a new patient, and emergency room waits (e.g. sitting in the waiting room) average in the hours from what I've seen and experienced.  Getting a 2nd opinion is possible, but that doesn't mean your insurance company will be willing to pay twice.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]
but by bobdole (4.00 / 1) #11 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:15:09 AM EST
the theory is that emergency rooms and waiting lines are for those unfortunate enough to not be covered by the ultimate insurance plan... where as in a more egalitarian system would give you attention on a triage/need to basis rather than the size of your insurance deal.

-- The revolution will not be televised.
[ Parent ]
That's a crappy theory though by theboz (2.00 / 0) #30 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 10:35:38 PM EST
When I've taken people to the emergency room, you wait a long time before you even get to triage, then they make you wait a long time after triage, and your insurance paperwork isn't really tied into the level of service you get.  The only factor that seems to cause you to get better service is to find a hospital in the middle of nowhere.  So you're better off driving an hour away to get seen within an hour than driving fifteen minutes and waiting four hours.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]
it also depends on how close to dead by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #37 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 09:59:59 AM EST
the patient is.

I was sped through triage once when I had the stomach flu.  They had an absolute shit when they took my bp, and got me on an IV almost immediately (and later told me I had been a few hours away from death). 

When my ex had a terrible abcess one weekend (read: regular doctor offices not open), we sat for 6 hours before he got a bed.  It wasn't an immediate danger, etc.

It's all complicated by the fact that most people in the ER don't have anywhere else to go (either due to no insurance or it's after hours), so there's a long line.  It's less an "emergency room" and more of a catch-all.

[ Parent ]
Nope, sorry, you've missed the point by Dr Thrustgood (4.00 / 2) #28 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:23:47 PM EST
It's not at all about second choice or waiting lines. It's about doubt: if I'm unsure about an injury, I can go to the local A&E, get seen, and after an indeterminate amount of time find out whether it warrants further attention.

I've said injury, but the same is true of general illness, mental or otherwise.

It's astounding that people have to make a choice about whether an issue is serious enough to warrant a visit. A year ago I was involved in a road accident on my bike, and I chose to walk five minutes to the hospital rather than wait for an ambulance because that'd be taking an ambulance that someone in dire straights might need. I fully admit the commie thinking behind it, but is that so bad?



[ Parent ]
If the injury was that minor by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #29 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 07:38:29 PM EST
WTF did you waste the hospital's time, then?

See - from my point of view - if I can get myself home, then I clearly don't need a hospital. If it hurts tomorrow, then I'll go see the family doctor. It astounds me that you'd waste your time - and the hospital's - for something that clearly wasn't an emergency.

You make me wonder if there's just a fundamental difference of attitude about medicine and injuries in our different countries.

For example - I broke 2000 miles on my bike today. I was damn determined to do it, and I did it. Along the way I had an... encounter... with a very sturdy piece of roadway signage.

When I was eating dinner, my wife said "Did you fall today?", to which I replied
    "Ummm.... Yes?"
"Are you okay?"
    "Ummm.... Yes?"
"Have you seen your arms?"
    "..... Oh. Interesting."

It hadn't occurred to me to even check myself for damage - everything was still working, so I jumped back on and took off. I was more worried about the bike than me, anyway.

My son took his black belt test with a broken toe - we couldn't have stopped him if we wanted to.

Each time my daughter broke her leg, we took her to the family doctor first.

You save hospitals for things that are about to kill you - not little stuff.


An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
"Little stuff" by Dr Thrustgood (4.00 / 1) #34 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 01:12:20 AM EST
I can see where you're coming from on this, but you're putting words in my mouth here.

If my right hand and various fingers are cut to ribbons and bleeding heavily, I'll go to hospital all the same, thanks.



[ Parent ]
Well, it comes down to the idea by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #36 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 09:37:10 AM EST
that you walked yourself to the hospital. In my mind, that kind of implies you weren't that badly off. If you were bleeding, you shouldn't have been walking - ditto if there was risk of concussion.



An Angry and Flatulent Pig, Trying to Tie Balloon Animals
[ Parent ]
Ironically by bobdole (2.00 / 0) #32 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 12:18:44 AM EST
ObTroll has a point. The GP or (family doctor, depending on country) is supposed to be the gatekeeper for the hospital (or more specialised people, which is why you get referred and not go see any specialty as you like). Stuff that can wait, should wait. A&E is for that, accidents and emergencies. Everything else you are "supposed" to see your GP about first.

A&E is also the "GP" for those without, but it is always a second rate choice. It is usually much busier than your average GP and they won't have your history and is likely to be staffed with more junior doctors than your average GP.

-- The revolution will not be televised.
[ Parent ]
Lots do. by ni (4.00 / 1) #3 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:19:56 AM EST
But I think many of them just enjoy complaining. It has its problems, like any enormous government run program does, but fewer than most. There are things I'd change, but they're mostly insubstantial.


"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM
Thanks. by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:17:25 PM EST
So you've been able to get the medical service you've needed?


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
yes. always. by misslake (4.00 / 1) #44 Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 10:38:22 PM EST
occasionally it's been a bit of an awkward "well, we are booked here for 3 weeks, but it looks like i can get you in at the next town east on monday, or next town north late next week"

i have never seen or heard of anyone in canada not getting medical services they needed, other than weird situations where the police let someone die in a cell overnight or relatives not being willing to drive granny to the doctors and not beleiving when she says to call the ambulance.

i've had to wait in emerge for hours sometimes, if i am merely sick and others with more pressing concerns came in ahead of me.

there were complaints about the user pay insurance fees for alberta i heard when i was out there, but that wasn't about the actual medical service, more about the way they decided how much you should pay monthly.

[ Parent ]
Oh, yes, of course. by ni (4.00 / 1) #45 Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 11:11:34 PM EST
The idea of not getting the care I needed is  foreign to me. I sometimes wonder if it isn't some major divide in the way Canadians and Americans conceive of health. I have real trouble imagining being unable to afford good healthcare. Healthcare is just something that's there. I might get seriously sick, but it's a bad role of the dice, and from that point I have a great deal of faith in "the system" taking care of me in a more or less satisfactory manner.

That's not to say it's perfect, or anything near it. MRI waiting lists are infamous in Canada (although I've wondered if the people complaining of them really need them urgently -- I have no idea), and if you're in the ER with something that isn't a genuine emergency you're going to be in for a long wait. From "the inside", too, while volunteering at hospitals, I've seen "the system" fail people in really terrible ways. Offhand, it's never been something that different funding could fix, although it's quite possible I'm forgetting an incident.

I think I'm a lot more sympathetic to the American healthcare system than most Canadians are, and I can understand many of the objections to government run (in one way or another) healthcare. That it "doesn't work", though -- in any real sense -- just doesn't match my experience.


"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM

[ Parent ]
I quite enjoy the healthcare system. by me0w (4.00 / 4) #4 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:29:52 AM EST
I think Canadians bitch because they really don't know how bad it could be ....


"the only reason we PMS is because our uterus is screaming at our brain to go out, get fucked, and have a baby ... and it makes us angry."

And I thought you lot were by muchagecko (4.00 / 1) #20 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:19:34 PM EST
an overwhelmingly pleasant bunch. Isn't there some law somewhere that states that Canadians have to be upbeat and friendly at all times?


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
We bitch polietly. by me0w (4.00 / 3) #24 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 05:03:00 PM EST
There are key things Canadians bitch about: Health care, the weather, price increases at Tim Hortons, the price of gas, and the government.

But it is all done with a please and thank you and a hug.


"the only reason we PMS is because our uterus is screaming at our brain to go out, get fucked, and have a baby ... and it makes us angry."

[ Parent ]
overwhelmingly pleasant bunches by aphrael (4.00 / 2) #25 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 05:15:16 PM EST
don't elect MPs who turn around and aggressively run over bicyclists.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]
MPPs only do that by Driusan (2.00 / 0) #39 Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 10:12:08 AM EST
after commiting genocide against puppies.

--
Vive le Montréal libre.
[ Parent ]
Is your friend god? by Merekat (4.00 / 3) #5 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:47:22 AM EST
What with the knowing of all Canadian minds?


Exactly by Bob Abooey (4.00 / 1) #9 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 07:54:26 AM EST
This is the classic troll:

I've got a friend who says that all [fill in ethnic group or race of people etc etc] are [fill in something controversial - pro abortion, jew haters, etc etc] and I was just wondering what you think about this?

That said - it is interesting to hear what other people from other countries think about their healthcare systems - perhaps she needs to rephrase the question and maybe learn to disregard friends who make broad-sweeping statements that are patently false.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.

[ Parent ]
you know by sasquatchan (4.00 / 1) #14 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 10:30:09 AM EST
A good buddy of mine said all those Cleveburghers are a bunch of maroons for continuing to support their loooooser sports teams. As a local native, Bob, what do you think about that ?

[ Parent ]
My sister said by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #38 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 10:03:51 AM EST
that all people in Cleveland like to fill their purses with free shrimp......

[ Parent ]
Bob, this really isn't a troll. by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 01:55:59 PM EST
This friend on FB was basing his dislike of the Canadian healthcare system on one opinion. Posting this diary seemed to me to be the fastest way for me to get MY Canadian friends' opinions.

I'll go back to him and share the comments here. I think he'll be surprised.

Thanks.


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
I only have anectdotal evidence by ks1178 (4.00 / 1) #6 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:54:19 AM EST
But when I was discussing the healthcare changes in the US, one of my uncles (who is originally from Canada, still has residences in both Canada  and the US, and most of his family still lives in Canada) made the point that among his circle of friends and family (who are mostly in the 50+ age range, and probably even mostly in the 60+ range) that live in Canada, come to the US for any major treatments that they need.

Now, if I assume most of them are as well off as he is, money is not an issue for those people, so their view point would probably differ from many other Canadians.

When I said that most of the people I know from Canada (a much smaller subset, a few from college, and the opinions I have read here) seem to be happy with the system and feel that the Canadian system is better, his rebutal was how old are most of them, and what types of procedures are of concern to them? And stated that while the health care in the US tends to be more expensive, it's much, much better, and more timely than that in Canada.

And in his opinion, if he's going to have to pay for any advanced treatment regardless of where he lives, he'd rather it not go through the government.

So for younger people, a lot of the issue is who and how it gets paid for, and not necessarily the actual quality of the treatment (since young people rarely have to actually deal with health care).

For my self, I really don't have a well informed opinion of how things actually are. Just how I think they could be.

on the other hand by bobdole (4.00 / 3) #12 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 08:21:46 AM EST
 If your option is good quality (as Canadian healthcare undoubtedly is in the world-scheme of things) or slightly better quality (as your uncle assumes the US to be) the choice is easy. However if your choice is next to no service (US without insurance) or slightly better quality (US), it doesn't really matter.
The point about better quality only stand for those fortunate enough to be able to pay for it.

While 2nd opinion and being able to shop around is undoubtedly a good thing, it does require a level of informed decision-making that most healthcare consumers does not have. Unless you can shop around based on statistics, types of procedures, mortality, you are basically being tricked into thinking that your opinion matters...

-- The revolution will not be televised.
[ Parent ]
Hmm. by Herring (2.00 / 0) #46 Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 07:34:49 AM EST
2nd opinion and being able to shop around is undoubtedly a good thing

I am not totally sold on that. When you read some of the loony anti-vax/chelation type message boards, you'll often see "I had to try 12 doctors before I found one that would agree that the CIA are controlling my brain".

To a lesser extent, what about someone who shops around for a doctor who wont tell them "your knees hurt because you're overweight".

(I seem to remember making this post before somewhere)

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky

[ Parent ]
neither am I by bobdole (2.00 / 0) #47 Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:26:13 AM EST
Patient empowerment is a double edged sword. Informed and engaged patients can be instrumental to finding a diagnosis, and as you point out it can also lead to situations where patients force incorrect dx. In the latter case it is the job of the healthcare system to recognise and refuse this behaviour, however with money incentives this can be difficult (as refusing treatment leads to less money). The key point is to strike a balance where some of power in the physician-patient relationship is shifted in favour of the patient (there needs to be a balance, so the 12 doctors story is still out).

The whole introduction of money into health creates a wrong premise where the focus removed from the well-being of the patient to selling services. Full-body scans being a good example.

-- The revolution will not be televised.
[ Parent ]
addendum by ks1178 (4.00 / 1) #7 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:56:41 AM EST
And in his opinion, if he's going to have to pay for any advanced treatment regardless of where he lives, he'd rather it not go through the government, And he doesn't want to have to pay twice (once for the healthcare he isn't going to use, and again for the better healthcare some place else that he'll need to go to, to get the best health care).

an anecdote by clover kicker (4.00 / 2) #8 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:58:00 AM EST
rule of thumb - if you've got serious problems, you'll probably get looked after quickly. If you've got something painful but non-life-threatening, you'll wait for a while, i.e. joint replacement can wait months and months.

A few years ago I was in a bad car accident (2 broken bones, one of them a compound fracture, assorted soft tissue damage) and got looked after quickly and efficiently. The guy on the other side of the hospital room was in the orthopedics ward with a badly broken ankle (incurred falling off the deck while drunk) and he complained about having to wait around for hours before surgery. The difference was that he wasn't in any danger, they examined him pretty quickly but just gave him a low priority.

Is the system overloaded? Yes, but I think they do a good job of triage.

A triage system only seems fair. by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:22:01 PM EST
How are the routine doctor visits - like dentists appointments? Are you able to get in every 6 months for a checkup and cleaning?


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
dentistry and optometry is not covered by clover kicker (4.00 / 1) #26 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:04:17 PM EST
You're on your own, or rely on your employer's health plan. From what I understand of the US system it's quite similar to my dentist situation.

I am entitled to a family doctor, in practice I'm entitled to search for a family doctor who's got room for more patients. This can be quite hard in rural areas, new doctors don't want to set up shop in the back woods.

[ Parent ]
as clover kicker said by Driusan (4.00 / 1) #40 Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 10:30:39 AM EST
Dentistry generally isn't covered by Canadian health care, but it's pretty easy to get appointments for checkups and cleaning. They even usually go so far as to call you and/or send you a letter reminding you that you're due.

Getting a family doctor, on the other hand, unless you happen to be pregnant, can be pretty difficult. When I moved to Quebec and told A2 that I kind of wanted to find a family doctor, she said that when she told her mom (who works in the health care industry), she laughed at me. On the other hand, once you have one, the service tends to be similar to the above mentioned dentistry service.

Anecdotally, when I was hit by a car and broke my arm, the service at the fracture clinic for regular checkups was horrible. If I had an appointment at, say, 10am, and got there at 9:30 or so, I wouldn't expect to see the doctor until at least 2-3pm, in most cases. It was frustrating and annoying, but given a choice between that and an american style system, I'd take the waiting any day.

Another thing worth noting is that health care in Canada is a provincial responsibility. There is no "Canadian Health Care System", there's one in Alberta, another one in Ontario, another one in BC, one in Quebec, one in New Brunswick, etc. They're all pretty similar in what they cost/cover, but they also have different priorities and your experience is largely going to vary depending on where you are (in addition to the province, whether you're in an urban,  suburban, or rural area is going to have a huge impact.)

Unrelatedly, but as long as we're on the topic of Canadian health care: This is one of my favourite movies. You should totally watch it.

--
Vive le Montréal libre.

[ Parent ]
Demand is infinite by marvin (4.00 / 3) #13 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 09:08:38 AM EST
Resources are limited. People I know here in Canada mostly complain about the gap between their desired level of service and their willingness to pay.

However, for all of the complaining that Canadians might do, there is a near-universal fear and abhorrence of the US model, where one of the most common causes of bankruptcy is health care costs, and people who cannot afford treatment are not cared for. I don't know a single person who wants to deal with private health care.

Apart from a few of the wealthy (some folks in the upper 5th-10th percentile of incomes), then there is little desire to change to a US model. While some governments talk about setting up a two-tier model, it already exists in a sense - the wealthy are free to skip Canadian queues and fly to the Mayo Clinic or wherever, and pay for their treatment in the US.

Even the centrist and right-wing parties in Canada are smart enough to leave the current health care model alone. Messing with the Canada Health Act is a sure-fire way to find yourself sitting on the opposition benches after the next election, and it would trigger an immediate election for any minority government.

I see a theme appearing throughout by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:28:28 PM EST
these posts.

Many complaints are coming from the type of people who complain about not having enough room in their garage for 10 cars. There probably is no pleasing those folks.


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
People bitch, the sun rises and sets. by Phil the Canuck (4.00 / 5) #15 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 01:18:30 PM EST
The truth is Canadians love their heathcare system like a member of their own family.  People bitch about things their mothers do, they bitch about healthcare.  If the Prime Minister stood up tomorrow and told the country he was going to do away with it after the next election, his party would be voted out of power and relegated to perpetual fringe status.  Canadians love their healthcare.

I've dealt with it on both sides.  Day-to-day care is roughly the same in Canada as it is for a well-insured American.  The biggest differences I see are:
In Canada healthcare is about caring for people's health, in the US it is big business at its biggest.  Some people in the US can afford phenomenal care.  Some people can afford mostly adequate care.  Some can afford crappy care.  Some can afford none.  In Canada everybody gets the mostly adequate tier.  Canadians have a longer life expectency.  Canadians enjoy a lower infant mortality rate.

As a collective, Canadians love their healthcare.


Phil by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:15:18 PM EST
because you have lived on both sides of the border, your opinion is especially valuable.

Thanks for contributing.


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
Fringe status? by marvin (4.00 / 1) #23 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 04:10:20 PM EST
The Rhino Party would get more votes. Doing away with public health care would not only cost a party every last seat they held in parliament, it would probably trickle down to lost votes for similarly named provincial parties.

[ Parent ]
Going slightly offtopic by Herring (4.00 / 1) #27 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 06:10:00 PM EST
I would say that the same applies in the UK.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
Thank you so much everyone. by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 02:11:07 PM EST
I'm pretty pleased with these results.

*hugs*


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

What's different about Canada by wumpus (4.00 / 1) #31 Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 11:22:28 PM EST
that nobody seems to be discussing is that as far as I know, there aren't any specific medical procedures that are politically controversial in Canada (I may be wrong about largely Catholic areas).

The US is different. Not only is each party required to work a specific way on abortion (I think the Republicans are rightfully terrified of being forced to choose between keeping the base or the moderates), but the last I heard, Sarah Palin was against all forms of effective birth control (both the Pill and IUD can allow conception, but prevent implantation).

The Left seems to be going through the motions of working for a canadian-like system. I wonder why nobody seems to be asking what would W. Bush have done with a public health care system if he had inherited one?

Wumpus

[ Parent ]
I hadn't even considered that abortion would by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #33 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 12:59:31 AM EST
be part of the healthcare debate.

Crap.

Is that what my old school friends are upset about?


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
public funded abortion was controversial at first by clover kicker (4.00 / 1) #35 Fri Sep 04, 2009 at 06:46:05 AM EST
When abortion was decriminalized (old law struck down by supreme court) there was a huge fuss. In fact no politician dared to touch the issue, to this day there is no law about abortion on the books, just a gentleman's agreement in the medical community about what is acceptable. I'm told the supreme court decision very carefully analyzed the old law and said which portions were legal and which ones were objectionable, the judges intended it as a blueprint for new legislation that would be constitutionally kosher - but no-one had the balls to act on it.

Anyway, at the time of the court decision several provinces refused to fund abortion. Those provinces were eventually pwned in court, and forced to fund abortions.

But that was years ago, these days it's a dead issue. Our right-wing politicians absolutely won't talk about abortion, for fear of being identified with American right-wing politicians.

re: Catholic, Quebec is mostly French-speaking, and they all identify themselves as Catholic, but it's what I call cultural Catholicism, part of their history and their identity, not everyday life and decision-making. In practice, Quebec is post-religious.

Canada as a whole isn't as religious as the US, and the religious lobby is weaker and less organized.


[ Parent ]
sorry to be late to the parade by 256 (4.00 / 1) #41 Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 09:04:04 PM EST
i think the canadian health care system is wonderful.

i have a bunch of anecdotes i could share. i've been in and out of my share of canadian emergency rooms and operating rooms.

i would have complained about a hundred inconsequential things if you had posted this diary two years ago. but now that i've lived in the usa for two years...

---
I don't think anyone's ever really died from smoking. --ni

Perspective by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #42 Sat Sep 05, 2009 at 10:13:23 PM EST
It's amazing how it changes.

The friend I posted this for blew off the overwhelming endorsement of Canadian healthcare by folks here by saying "I'm guessing we'll both be able to find people pro and con on this issue."

I don't think there's anything that anyone could say to change his mind.


A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

[ Parent ]
They all stink by duxup (4.00 / 1) #43 Mon Sep 07, 2009 at 12:41:35 PM EST
All health care systems need some wonking with and stink over time.  Including ours (US).
____
Canadian healthcare | 47 comments (47 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback