Print Story Starting a discussion about which I know nuffin
Hardware
By anonimouse (Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 08:22:33 AM EST) (all tags)
Same as usual...

Body Armour: Osprey Assault, Dragon Skin, Interceptor or summit else? What should a soldier (with enough money) be wearing when the shit starts flying?



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More important than body armor by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 1) #1 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 12:46:50 PM EST

is sufficient small arms and ammunition. Armor is awesome if your enemies happen to shoot you in the chest or the head. Returning fire, however, dissuades them from taking the time to aim at you in the first place.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
Agreed by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 01:01:05 PM EST
..but I was assuming that there do arise situations where fire is incoming rather than (or as well as) outgoing, and what you should be wearing in that eventuality.


Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
Bullet proof is a misnomer. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 03:22:44 PM EST
If you're depending on armor, you're going to die.

That being said, the Dragon Skin stuff has as many detractors as fan boys. Interceptor uses, what, four plates and some ballistic folds?  That can leave some gaps, but you'd have to be very unlucky to get gapped.  That being said, those gaps come into play when shrapnel from a roadside / suicide bomb is the weapon of choice.

I've read through the Army report on the Dragon Skin.  They find faults with the design, faults with prone position deflect / overhead munitions ricocheting into the "weave" of the plates used in Dragon Skin.  I don't know that I believe any of it, what with the sheer volume of outcry and the many, many experts (most with no financial stake in Dragon Skin) who've said they prefer that armor.  And hey, the CIA and DIA use it.

The new UK stuff has a great design, an evolution of their other designs.  When PECOC debuts (assuming it doesn't go FCS on them....), it's a much better system.  But it will require funding, testing, and etc.

Really though, an impartial test of the systems that are out there hasn't been done.  The test done by the Army for FCS was biased, and that's a well known fact.  My gues is someone high up in the Bush admin was a stakeholder in DHB and someone got a call that Interceptor was all that was, and all else was AFU.

Was that enough acronyms?  I'm trying really hard to use as many as possible.

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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]
The unfortunate thing by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 3) #4 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 03:29:08 PM EST

about military specifications and requirements is that they aren't always based on what's best, so much as what's produced by the bidder who scored the contract. That said, Dragon Skin is allegedly awesome, and yet here in the States, it was beat out of the contract by a more traditional armor company, which, while it meets the standard, is not as good as it could be. Where it gets weird is when you look force by force at who is allowed to take what. For instance, the US Army doesn't really care who paid for whatever you bring, as long as it works and meets spec, while the Marines won't let you bring shit if it isn't "issue" based on the principle that all Marines should be equally equipped. Got the money to buy your own NVGs? If you're a Marine, don't waste it, as those NVGs are destined to be box-bound while you're downrange, since you aren't an officer or team leader.

I'm curious how much of this translates across the Atlantic. Is it similar there? Do the different branches have different rules? Inquiring minds need to know!


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
Pretty sure SAS use whatever they want. by dmg (4.00 / 1) #5 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 04:10:00 PM EST
Presumably this is one of the perks of being in an 'elite' organization.

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dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.
[ Parent ]
Perhaps a perk, by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 04:45:20 PM EST

but also a necessity, as the more elite groups need to be functionally familiar not only with the best their own country offers, arms/armor/gear-wise, but also what the countries they may end up involved in direct action might have.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
Uk by anonimouse (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 01:45:31 AM EST
I'm pretty sure that UK personnel are allowed to purchase what they want on top of their standard equipment. In fact there were a lot of complaints that many UK personnel were only getting previous generation body armour and thus chose to upgrade by buying their own.

There was also one complaint where it was felt that one armoured regiment had taken this a little too far and was told not to come out for warfare dressed like it was going for a hunting trip... (most of the officers were wearing Barbour shooting gear instead of standard army clothing - it's probable that the Barbour gear at the time was better )

I also read that requirements tend to vary and that infantry prefer lighter armour on the basis that sometimes they have to run, whereas armoured units want to ensure protection from ied's etc and don't mind heavier armour so much as they can drive to their target.


Girls come and go but a mortgage is for 25 years -- JtL
[ Parent ]
Starting a discussion about which I know nuffin | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback