Print Story As Menken said
Money
By wiredog (Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:50:36 AM EST) (all tags)
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.


Quotes from the usual suspects:

Megan:

The Republicans shot it down 65 to 133. I find it hard to believe that they're voting their conscience; they're voting their electoral interest in November. I hope their constituencies enjoy the bank panic.

the longer they wait, the busier the FDIC gets. This, I must point out, also costs the US taxpayer money, and there's no chance we'll get any of it back, either.

The public doesn't quite grasp what's at stake, and there's no reason they should. But the representatives do. The true believers--well, I forgive them their zealotry, and hope that they're right and I'm wrong. But anyone who tanks a bank bailout they think might be needed, in order to get a cut in the capital gains tax, deserves to be tried for treason.

Of all the saddest claims about the failed bailout is the Republicans saying that they had to do so because Nancy Pelosi delivered such a horrid, partisan speech ... I expect Republican legislators to pay more attention to the economic fate of the nation than to whether the speaker of the house is hurting their exquisitely delicate feelings. As a friend notes, "I expect more maturity from my daughter and her fourth-grade classmates".

Andrew:

There could be no better testament to the historic ineptitude and failure of the Bush administration than that two-thirds of the members of the president's own party rejected his administration's plan to deal with the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

The Republicans killed the bill, and they are going to have to live with the consequences.

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As Menken said | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Irony by duxup (2.00 / 0) #1 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:55:23 AM EST
The Irony I see is that here are Republicans actually voting along some of the fiscally conservative / free market paths that they always claim to support, but rarely do.  The downside being that since they only give such things lip-service and this is a bigger issue than some typical budget battle the wisdom is questionable.

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Yep. If they'd been fiscally conservative earlier by wiredog (4.00 / 2) #2 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 11:57:25 AM EST
Say, in 2000 to 2006, we might not have the problems we do now.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Is this then by Breaker (4.00 / 2) #8 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 02:10:23 PM EST
Their suicide note?  If we can't have the government, then fuck you all.  We're a-goin to leave such a stinking mess the Democrats'll bleed you dry to restore the country to normality, then you'll vote for us again.

I have a feeling that this is exactly what NuLabia under the Great Glorious Clunking Fist of Gordon "Texture Like Sun" Brown is going to do to UKia, before "CallMe" Dave Cameron of the Tories wins a landslide[1].

And it'll fail.  It'll just entrench hatred of the current incumbents for one more term beyond their usefullness.


[1] Despite popular opinion being contrary, I am neither a Labour or  Tory supporter.  I'm still waiting for Attila The Hun to run for UKian PM, so I can be slightly to the right of him.


[ Parent ]
Republicans by ucblockhead (4.00 / 2) #9 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:04:53 PM EST
It is interesting to note that the last time this happened, we ended up with the Democratic party in control for sixty years.  (With two single term interludes.)

(Assuming new massive economic clusterfuck.  If we survive, who knows what will happen.)
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
Tin-foil hat time.... by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #10 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:48:02 PM EST
My favorite conspiracy theory at the moment is that the plan is for America to collapse just as a young, energetic Democrat with big ideas enters office. Result? Another New Deal, complete with national jobs programs, national health care and a rebuilt social security system.

Of course, the implications of this theory is that someone is willing to bring back double-digit unemployment, bread lines and massive homelessness so they can justify nationalizing  a significant portion of the private enterprise.

Is Mike keeping up with his riding?
[ Parent ]
Well by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #13 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:15:02 PM EST
The explanation I heard that made the most sense is this: most of the "no" votes, D and R, came from people in close elections.  The theory is that they know that the bailout was unpopular, and voted against it so that they could run against the "bailout" congress.  In other words, they wanted it to pass, but wanted to be seen voting no.  The trouble is that there were so many in this position that it didn't pass.

I'd by your conspiracy theory if it didn't require either Democratic moles in the Republican party, or far more Machiavellian genius on Pelosi's part than I give her credit for.

Obama has just outstanding luck.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

[ Parent ]
Ah, but that's the beauty of a good conspiracy by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #14 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:27:55 PM EST
moles are a given.

Yeah, I know it's not true - it's just starting to feel like we're living in a Robert Ludlum novel, you know?




Is Mike keeping up with his riding?
[ Parent ]
Yeah by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #16 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 08:00:27 PM EST
We like conspiracy theories, because they imply that the conspirators know what the hell they are doing. The alternative, that everyone is incompetent, is depressing.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
everyone is incompetent by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #18 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 04:04:19 AM EST
My alternative is not that everyone is incompetent, it's that everyone is about as competent in their fields as I am in mine or you are in yours.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
That theory is well explained at by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #19 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 04:06:51 AM EST
The Nation.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
During my carpetbagging expiriences by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #11 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST
I ran into a couple from Britain.  The guy I was working with mentioned something about "our Democrats would be roughly equivalent to the Tory party".  The couple then had to apologize for having a Republican son (sounded like the guy wants to vote a third term for W.).  I bit my lip about suggesting any similarity to the BNP.

Wumpus




[ Parent ]
the plan as currently constituted by MillMan (4.00 / 4) #3 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 12:17:56 PM EST
won't get the credit markets running again anyway.

They might need to create a new national bank from scratch that does what banks are supposed to do - business loans, school loans, etc - boring, "low" return type stuff. But that is what keeps the real economy going, and as the credit markets seize further, the real economy will only get further swept up into the failures of the "casino economy" the financial world got us into. Handing $700 billion to the casino economy only turns their losing bets into bullshit winnings. It does little for the real economy. It's a stunningly naked transfer of wealth. Nothing more.

Megan sounds about right.

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?

instead of "losing bets" by MillMan (4.00 / 4) #4 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 12:19:47 PM EST
I should have said "pyramid scheme end game." 

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?

[ Parent ]
a stunningly naked transfer of wealth by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #5 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 12:35:47 PM EST
Not really. The expectation was that the government would, long term, break even. There was even a mechanism intended to ensure that.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
"expectation" and "intended" by MillMan (4.00 / 1) #6 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 01:00:40 PM EST
They made bets. They lost their bets. Now they are asking the taxpayers to pay their gambling debts. That's all this is. Nothing more.

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?

[ Parent ]
and how by webwench (4.00 / 1) #7 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 01:43:45 PM EST
Let the bodies hit the floor, I say.

That said, I may be eating my words in six months as a tasty side helping to the main dish of dog food.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!

[ Parent ]
Yesterday the stock market lost 1 trillion. by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #20 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 04:09:01 AM EST
In about 4 hours. God knows what today will bring. So, worst case, the bailout would have cost less.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Lost a trillion? by priestess (2.00 / 0) #21 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 04:28:17 AM EST
So surely that means the bankrupt companies are CHEAPER now? The bailout to nationalize them should cost LESS. no?

Pre...........

---------
Chat to the virtual me...
[ Parent ]
paper losses by webwench (2.00 / 0) #22 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 04:46:12 AM EST
aren't quite the same thing. Unless, of course, you think the market will never come back up again.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!

[ Parent ]
The trouble by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #23 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 06:38:01 AM EST
A lot of the troubles is that a lot of this money that we pretended we had didn't actually exist.  It was a long chain of obligations terminating after a bunch of twisty passages in bad loans.  At some point, we'll get new money, but I'm increasingly coming to the conclusion that much of the boom years in the last couple decades were delusion.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
Well, lets see.. by LinDze (4.00 / 2) #12 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:55:30 PM EST
I can either pay $2,000 to a bunch of fucks I dont really approve of and watch the economy take a decent hit.

Or I can not pay anything and possibly lose my job if everything burns to the ground.

WHOOOO!!! FREE WILL!!! 

-Lin Dze
Arbeit Macht Frei
Paul Begala was on The Colbert Report tonight by lm (4.00 / 2) #15 Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:16:18 PM EST
He asked how much of people's social security would have been invested in AIG, Lehman Brothers and Morgan Stanley if the the McCain/Bush privatization efforts of 2004 had passed congress.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
Some interesting points by Breaker (2.00 / 0) #17 Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 02:14:00 AM EST
here.  Possibly a little reactionary, but there are still some valid questions to be found in there.


As Menken said | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback