Print Story So it's come to that?
Diary
By nightflameblue (Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:29:09 AM EST) (all tags)
AFKS and Mrs. AFKS may have finally met the breaking point. Sad, but a long time coming.


AFKS and Mrs. AFKS have been trying to adopt now for seven years. All that time, the waiting list. Every year, they go through the same discussion. The paperwork all needs to be refiled every year because of some weird quirk in the way the adoption agency works, even though their supposed position on the list remains.

So, every year they fight about it because Mrs. AFKS is fully invested in baby-mania, and AFKS is very, "if we get a baby, great. If not, we've got other shit we could be doing, so that's cool too."

However, Mrs. AFKS's obsession with baby-mania grows stronger every year. AFKS says, every year, "this is the last year I go through this again with you. I'm tired of watching you sit around crying because you don't yet have a baby. There's other things you can do with your life. There's other things we can do as a husband and wife. There's a life to be lived, and I won't watch you spend another year living it on the couch, waiting, preparing, for something that's pretty likely to never happen."

And every year she pulls out the trump card, "sign up again or I leave you."

And every year, he does.

Until this year. She pulled the trump, and he said, "OK, I don't have the energy to fight this anymore. I don't want you to leave, but if you feel that the only two paths you can take are 'baby' or 'leave,' then that's your choice to make."

She left. And immediately contacted a lawyer with all the adoption papers that he signed last year to try and get the lawyer to say that these are legally binding documents and he HAS to stay with her until the adoption goes through no matter what.

Seeing as how the agency itself dumps the documents at the end of every year, he's not worried about that.

But he has gotten constant phone calls from her family saying that he's throwing away all of his friends and his marriage and blah, blah, blah. His response is always the same, "I didn't tell her to leave. It's her choice."

And I watch two of my best friends finish the war that started nearly six years ago when the adoption process hit its first hiccough and AFKS realized this isn't a sure thing.

The lectures from friends and family outside of me all revolve around the argument that "the baby is everything. You wait until the baby comes, no matter how long it takes." He's just tired of watching his wife live her life as a pile of goo.

It's gotten so bad that she got busy at work one week so he took care of all the housework that week. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but in my house when one of us surprises the other by taking over all of their house chores, the general feeling is, "THAT FUCKING RULES!" What she took from it? "HE DOESN'T NEED ME FOR ANYTHING! WHY AM I EVEN HERE?"

So, now, rather than try to figure out where they are, Mrs. AFKS is talking to the lawyer trying to force AFKS to stay in the adoption game which she's agreed, year after year, to let him drop out of if it doesn't work out this time around.

He's fed up and done with it.

I think a night of drunken stupidity is in order. Soon.

< A Day in the Life | Non Musician Says: I don’t know >
So it's come to that? | 62 comments (62 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Are any of your family or friends functiional? by wiredog (4.00 / 2) #1 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:35:11 AM EST
Or, rather, are they all dysfunctional?

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

My wife seems alright. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 2) #6 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:45:10 AM EST

That's about it.

[ Parent ]
You're pretty sane yourself. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #13 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 06:51:11 AM EST
Doesn't one of your colleagues have his head screwed on, too?

[ Parent ]
Huh. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #14 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:03:00 AM EST
That's the first time anyone on this site has ever accused me of that particular malady.

Yeah, one of the guys I work with seems at least semi-rational. But I haven't bothered disclosing the story about his sister who's dating a guy twice her age, cheating on him with a guy even older than him, and just had a baby who they aren't sure who the daddy is. Her husbands in the maternity ward holding the baby, and her side-action guy is standing outside the maternity ward taking pictures of the baby and pointing it out to onlookers as his kid.

So, it's not like sanity is something that carries strong ties within family lines by what I've witnessed.

[ Parent ]
they're largely from the rural midwest by gzt (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:59:08 AM EST
He's in SOUTH DAKOTA, seriously!

[ Parent ]
That's a stupid question. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #26 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:43:30 AM EST
How many functional people do you hang out with?


--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]
Well, by ambrosen (4.00 / 4) #42 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:30:02 PM EST
I much prefer them to object-orientated people.

[ Parent ]
Don't Forget by wiredog (4.00 / 1) #46 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:00:05 AM EST
I'm in AA. We're supposed to be whack jobs. We call you guys "normal".

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)

[ Parent ]
Sounds like Mrs. AFKS has a huge hole in by georgeha (4.00 / 3) #2 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:40:10 AM EST
her personality, far too huge for a baby to fill.


It's her family. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #4 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:43:52 AM EST
She's hard-core catholic. The kind of catholic that believes babies are the only thing life is worth living for. And it's a constant, CONSTANT push from her family, at all times, "baby, baby, baby, baby." Every gift is something baby related. Every talk is somehow related back to babies. It's a need driven family, and she's taken that need to extraordinary heights.

[ Parent ]
Who has the blanks? by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:45:55 AM EST
Mrs. AFKS or AFKS?


[ Parent ]
The world may never know. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:59:54 AM EST
She wanted him to get tested. When the doctor said the modern approach is to test both the woman and the man at the same time, she backed out and went the adoption route. We see how well that's worked out for them.

[ Parent ]
well, criminy! by gzt (4.00 / 3) #20 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:05:31 AM EST
She couldn't possibly be the problem! That's... inconceivable.

[ Parent ]
Obviously. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #21 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:11:12 AM EST
She wants a baby. And that's the natural order of things. He doesn't particularly care if they have a baby, and that's positively EVIL!

[ Parent ]
I dispute that. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #27 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:45:04 AM EST
It's entirely possible to be Catholic and not obsessed with spawning.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]
That's why I said. . . by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #28 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:26:08 AM EST
"the kind of." This implies, without stating it outright, that there are other kinds of Catholics.

[ Parent ]
You never met my ex, eh? /nt by yankeehack (2.00 / 0) #40 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:48:15 PM EST

"...she dares to indulge in the secret sport. You can't be a MILF with the F, at least in part because the M is predicated upon it."-CBB
[ Parent ]
Friends? by Alan Crowe (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:40:14 AM EST
I have an unhappy feeling that Mrs AFKS hasn't talked this through with her friends.

Actually, I have an even worse feeling that Mrs AFKS has talked this through with her friends, her remaining few friends who know to agree with her.

As far as I know. . . by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #5 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:44:25 AM EST
I'm her last non-family friend. And her family are. . . see the other comment.

[ Parent ]
with pressure like that... by clock (4.00 / 2) #9 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 06:00:21 AM EST
...he's going to feel 1,000,000 lbs. lighter with her out of his immediate vision.  experience, etc.

good luck to him, though.  and a night of hard drinking IS called for!  stat!


I agree with clock entirely --Kellnerin

He said last night, by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #12 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 06:20:11 AM EST
"If what it takes at this point for her to feel better is for her to take my complete Black Sabbath collection, fine. Let's just do it and be done."

So, yeah, he is going to feel much, MUCH better once this is all over.

[ Parent ]
Warning sign by jayhawk88 (4.00 / 1) #10 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 06:01:06 AM EST
It's gotten so bad that she got busy at work one week so he took care of all the housework that week. Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but in my house when one of us surprises the other by taking over all of their house chores, the general feeling is, "THAT FUCKING RULES!" What she took from it? "HE DOESN'T NEED ME FOR ANYTHING! WHY AM I EVEN HERE?"

I'm no psychologist and obviously don't know anything about the situation but that sounds like depression talking. Maybe this has been tried already but perhaps some counseling is in order rather than just throwing around and responding to ultimatums?

Yeah. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #11 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 06:19:22 AM EST
They tried that. It was all good until the counselor said that it wasn't all AFKS's fault and that she could tone back a little on the BABY BABY BABY BABY tantrums. Then counseling was taken off the table as an option, because the baby is everything.

[ Parent ]
Hrm by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #15 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:06:19 AM EST
Not sure either of those people sound like they are in a space to be good parents right now.

I know some of how it is...we went through six years of infertility issues before basically giving up and decided maybe a childless existence was OK. Fortunately, we were in agreement.

Then my wife got pregnant. Life's funny like that.
---
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

That's one of AFKS's biggest frustrations. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #16 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:15:10 AM EST
Mrs. AFKS is SO focused on finding that goal that she hasn't let herself just relax and enjoy life in over five years. He kept telling her early on if she'd just relax it might just happen the natural way, which would piss her off even more, and start the whole cycle again.

I've been saying for a number of years that bringing a kid into the environment their home had become was NOT a good idea until they hashed some things out between them. Mrs. AFKS remained convinced that once the kid was there, everything would just fix itself. She'd be happy, and AFKS is gonna be such a great daddy, puppies and sunshine and flowers and candy. . .

The baby is the fantasy. Reality shall not encroach.

Keep in mind, I've gotten this straight from her. So it's not like I'm just seeing one side of the argument. The morph she went through once baby-find kicked in is just frightening to witness.

[ Parent ]
That's the worst. by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #24 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:30:59 AM EST
Having a baby makes creates sleep deprivation, triples daily chores and saps the bank account. Anyone expecting sunshine and flowers and candy is in for a *big* surprise.
---
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
plus takes attention from each other, by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #25 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:36:34 AM EST
raises stress levels and a whole slew of other stressors on a marriage level.



[ Parent ]
But her tits get huge! [nt] by debacle (2.00 / 0) #44 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:26:27 PM EST


IF YOU HAVE TWO FIRLES THOROWNF MONEY ART SUOCIDE GIRLS STRIPPER HPW CAN YPUS :OSE?!?!?!?(elcevisides).

[ Parent ]
Who needs an excuse for hard drinking? by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:37:23 AM EST
Eh?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

rules: by gzt (4.00 / 4) #18 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 07:57:07 AM EST
  1. Never drink alone.
  2. For hard drinking, always have an excuse.
Otherwise, you're an alcoholic.

[ Parent ]
Let met guess ..... by FlightTest (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:58:42 AM EST
She's holding out for a white baby?

My brother and his wife have adopted two infants in the last 5 years. One African-American boy, and last year a Hispanic girl. Their wait for both babies was approximately 3 years each. It is almost impossible to get healthy white infants in the U.S. My brother and SIL have agreements for limited contact (I belive cards and letters only at first) with birth mothers after a certain age.

Now, given, we don't live in the midwest, but the re-filing of paperwork every year seems over the top. Even when my brother and SIL went back for their second, they didn't have to re-file all the paperwork (though they got no break on the fees). Maybe the agency is trying to tell Mr. and Mrs. AFKS that they really don't want to place a baby with them?

Judge us as you may, but Mrs. FT and I didn't feel we were prepared to raise a child of a different race. I'm not sure my brother and SIL recognize all the pitfalls and issues that they'll inevitably face, especially as the children reach their teen years. Also, since both of us work, neither of us particularly wanted an infant. Since we were willing to accept an older child, it was not difficult for us to get a caucasion child.

I guess I understand the obession with getting an infant, but there are loads of older children who need homes as well. Kids who hit age 11 or 12 in the system have depressing large odds of aging out. Even for children as young as 4 or 5, there are far more children in the system than families willing to adopt them.

people don't realize the pitfalls by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #23 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:10:45 AM EST
of mixed race families.

a friend of mine is married to a japanese guy, and they have 2 kids.  the kids look more like him than her (she's freckled, white, with red hair).  she's run into all kinds of crap about how those children couldn't possibly be hers.

it's sad how racism is still alive and well in this day and age.

[ Parent ]
My husband and his children by webwench (2.00 / 0) #33 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:53:58 AM EST
have a similar situation... he just thinks it's funny and I think he enjoys the attention.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!

[ Parent ]
America by dmg (2.00 / 0) #35 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:11:26 AM EST
Does seem to have a peculiar obsession with race.
--
dmg - HuSi's most dimwitted overprivileged user.
[ Parent ]
That's likely regional by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #37 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:23:18 AM EST
Here in the Bay Area it is so common I doubt anyone comments.
---
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
True that by FlightTest (4.00 / 1) #39 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:36:18 AM EST
But at least in that situation if they're out together at the very worst people will think its a blended family. There is NO DOUBT my niece and nephew are adopted. Also, there is no cultural gap between the parents and child of a "traditional" mixed race couple. With adoption the cultural gap can be huge. Trans-racially adopted kids often feel caught between cultures, belonging to neither.

My SIL's attitude is if people don't like the fact they're raising an African-American or Hispanic child then that's their problem. But that's only half-right, it's also quite pointedly the kid's problem, as they're not as emotionally equipped to deal with the comments as the adults are. I don't think my brother and SIL quite realize this.

[ Parent ]
A guy I knew from high school/college by wumpus (2.00 / 0) #41 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:09:25 PM EST
is mixed Chinese/Filipino. Unfortunately for him, this is roughly the genetic mixture of the Japanese. He just doesn't look Japanese to USians, Japanese people will address him in Japanese. You can imagine how this feels to either Chinese and/or Filipinos.

On a completely different note, after tramping around the US in 95/96 I landed in Columbia, MD. More mixed race couples than I ever seen in any 10 places all over the country. Anybody who runs into such trouble should at least find out if moving there will help.

Wumpus

[ Parent ]
There are pitfalls . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #50 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:13:42 AM EST
. . . and as one half of a mix-raced couple expecting children, we have certainly met a few already and will certainly encounter more in the future. It is a lifelong study of the human condition, that's for sure.

That being said, it really depends on where you live and who you hang with. Downtown Toronto or an hour north in Newmarket where I live, it's been easy for us, I think. Plenty of other mixed race couples around, very middle class neighbourhood that isn't entirely white, etc.

Crazily, I am actually curious to experience the challenges in the future, dealing with a teacher perhaps who might disbelieve that her pupil is my child or some such thing. We have lots of fun talking about and guessing which one of us is going to have the parental identity issues . . .

[ Parent ]
it isn't the mixed-race couples by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #58 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:20:03 AM EST
nobody cares about that.  hell, my first marriage was mixed-race and I never heard a word about it.

it's the children issue, especially when the children look nothing like the mother.  that's where my friend has the problems.

[ Parent ]
She should feign shock by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 2) #51 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:50:33 AM EST
as she realizes that it's true - her husband had an affair and the kids aren't really hers.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.
[ Parent ]
No. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #29 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:32:53 AM EST
They were told the only option for adopting white in the US is subject to allowing the mother permanent visitation rights at all times. They refused because they knew it would create a bad situation by always having the "if you were my real mom" argument hanging out there.

They've been waiting on a Chinese baby for over five years because they were told it was the only option left to them. Every year to year and a half the Chinese regulations change and they are stuck being re-shuffled and having to refile paperwork and blah, blah blah.

Essentially, it's been a mess from the word go. The fact that she insisted it be conducted through a religious group rather than a real adoption agency doesn't help matters.

[ Parent ]
My sis in law does Koreans by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #30 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:39:41 AM EST
you can even get boys that way.


[ Parent ]
Yeah by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #36 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:20:55 AM EST
My wife has a friend who has adopted to Korean boys.
---
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
There's always eastern Europe by lm (2.00 / 0) #31 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:43:28 AM EST
But the window isn't going to last. There are quite a few groups that are trying very hard to shut down international adoptions. They've succeeded in some places. For example, it is no longer possible for a US national to adopt a child from Guatemala.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
They sort of passed the point . . . by nightflameblue (4.00 / 2) #32 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:46:16 AM EST
where I wanted to help them find a valid adoption about three years ago or so, when their house started to feel like a war zone. No reason to encourage bringing a child into that environment in my mind.

[ Parent ]
yeah, you have to be very careful by gzt (2.00 / 0) #34 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:09:06 AM EST
to find legitimate ones and not, well, child trafficking rings.

[ Parent ]
Heh by FlightTest (2.00 / 0) #38 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:24:50 AM EST
With adopting infants they'll have the "you're not my real mom" thing regardless. We haven't got that but we have got "$foster_mom let me do X". She knows she had to choose us as well as us choosing her. Being over 12 if she said no, they couldn't have forced her. This was made clear to her before she was placed with us, that she had the right to refuse. Depending on the circumstance, some contact (not unlimited) with bio-parents is usually helpful, and usually makes the bond with the adoptive parents stronger, not weaker. It is tough on the adoptive parents though.

With older children it's more up to the kids what kind of family contact they'll have. TFT will have some visits with her bio-parents, but it's contingent on them acting appropriately and showing up relatively on time.

$mechanic's sister got two Russian infants. But she's got considerable means and so got the connections and was able to pay off the right people to get two very healthy infants.

It does sound like a mess. As you've said, it's probably a good thing they haven't been placed.

[ Parent ]
Similar issues everywhere by Phage (2.00 / 0) #47 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:09:13 AM EST
There have been a number of stories lately like this one.

[ Parent ]
Fuck women by debacle (2.00 / 0) #43 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:23:34 PM EST
And men.

Seriously fucked up people, those two.

I mean fucking really.


IF YOU HAVE TWO FIRLES THOROWNF MONEY ART SUOCIDE GIRLS STRIPPER HPW CAN YPUS :OSE?!?!?!?(elcevisides).

You don't know the half of it. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #48 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:51:38 AM EST
nt

[ Parent ]
At least they didn't get a baby by duxup (4.00 / 1) #45 Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:43:39 PM EST
Seriously they could have gotten a dozen babies and it sounds like that relationship would have had problems.  Kids are great but I've yet to see them really fill any void we have.

A priest once told me that marriage should be two wholes coming together, and if it is two halves then they're not going to work out.  Not that you can't have problems or anything, but the other person alone can't be the filler.  Same goes for kids I figure, not that they can't provide some sense of meaning, but over the long run, we have to fill the holes in our selves.
____

Complete agreement. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #49 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:54:06 AM EST
An artificial need was created for Mrs. AFKS by her family. The baby push began right before they got married. Before that, she was very meh to the entire idea of children, or so she said. Her family pushed HARD for babies. She responded. At least, that's the kindest version I can paint of events.

The less kind version? She misrepresented to get herself a man and then flipped on her real personality. By the amount of times she's told AFKS that he's changed, when he really hasn't, I'm very afraid it's this version.

[ Parent ]
Seven years by Scrymarch (2.00 / 0) #52 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:16:56 AM EST
Of daily sandpaper grinding down the relationship must be pretty hard to take, on both of them.

I've heard that "relax and let it happen" is kind of a redline comment btw ... it's pretty useless advice if you think about it, no less for being so universal.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

Yet, what other advice would work. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #53 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:27:40 AM EST
When you've spent every waking moment for that long pushing yourself into a constant state of panic over something, what advice would do any good at all other than, "relax." Yes, it's stupid advice, but it's also the only applicable advice you can give.

[ Parent ]
Well, in that case, by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #56 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:34:54 AM EST
The best advice is to get yourself some CBT, stat.

[ Parent ]
BUT CBT ISN'T REAFFIRMING ALREADY HELD BELIEFS! by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #57 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:16:06 AM EST
Also, CBT DOESN'T AFFIRM THAT OTHERS ARE WRONG WHEN THEY DISAGREE! Therefore, CBT FAILS IT!

[ Parent ]
If that's the only advice you have by Scrymarch (2.00 / 0) #59 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:49:11 AM EST
I'd say don't give any advice.

I guess that sounds a bit harsh, but it also sounds like after seven years they'll have heard it before. I'm sure they'd love to relax if only they weren't busy flying into a rage every time someone told them to relax.

Counselling wasn't crazy, a shame that got derailed.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

[ Parent ]
Oh, sure, there's other advice. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #60 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:52:03 PM EST
But none of the rest of it matters at all if you can't relax long enough to listen to it.

Which doesn't make any sense when you're doing what you described, but is still 100% true.

[ Parent ]
Clarity of mind is a wonderful thing to have by Scrymarch (2.00 / 0) #61 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:17:39 PM EST
But after seven freaking years "just relaxing" is going to get you precisely nowhere. Even the adoption route was hardly just relaxing for them, was it.

Seriously, rightly or wrongly it's almost like a racial epithet to some infertile couples - it invalidates anything else you say.

The Political Science Department of the University of Woolloomooloo

[ Parent ]
You seem to be confused on a minor point. by nightflameblue (2.00 / 0) #62 Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 06:16:27 AM EST
This is the advice the husband has been giving the wife over the past few years. I'm not stupid enough to assume I'm in a position to give either of them ANY advice beyond sometimes saying, "hey, let's go do some shit" in the hopes it takes their mind off it for an evening.

[ Parent ]
Horay for freedom! [nt] by vorheesleatherface (2.00 / 0) #54 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:29:02 AM EST



That is his most fervent hope at this point. by nightflameblue (4.00 / 1) #55 Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:17:13 AM EST


[ Parent ]
So it's come to that? | 62 comments (62 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback