Print Story The smallest things are sometimes the largest.
Food
By blixco (Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:09:51 PM EST) (all tags)
But in the end, we're all just bags of protoplasm wandering around.


Like a whole lot of folks, I just read this article in the Wall Street Journal advising folks to start buying food.  Stock up the pantry.  Buy stuff that holds up well over time.

We're buying seed and flour.  Since I make all of our bread and it is still somewhat cost-effective (even with the King Arthur flours that I use), I bought a lot of it.  We'll see if, in six months, the price has risen more than 4 percent.

Basically, the idea is to invest cash in food now, and in six months that food will be worth X percent more...or rather, that food will save you X percent cash.

Add to that the food we're growing.  The US seems to have lost a lot of it's interest in vegetable gardens.  In my immediate neighborhood, there are four.  Granted, most of my neighbors think food comes in cardboard boxes or from a window in the side of a building, but the complete lack of any food being grown in the area is surprising.  The cost of getting started is a little high if you have to buy or supplement your soil, but the payoff over the long term is huge.  My vegetable bill every week is roughly $70 for two people.  Supplementing our vegetables with garden grown (including home canned or preserved veggies) will save me roughly 20 percent a week in the first growing cycle, and will eventually supply 90 percent of our vegetables.

Gardening isn't horribly difficult, but it takes time and isn't as fun as the numerous highspeed glassy diversions we're all into. It is hard on the back and knees.  The payoff is smaller than the input for a good while.  And when you do harvest, you may end up with too much zucchini, or too much soybean, and not enough peppers or etc.  So there's all this time you have to put in to learn the local tricks to balanced, healthy, hearty production. That costs time and some cash, but it puts you in touch with local gardeners and gets a network of support.

Almost every large metro / urban area has a community garden. Austin has quite a few.  Some are "open" gardens, where you get to plant whatever you want in a plot of land in exchange for helping with labor on the whole garden.  Some are "managed" plots (these terms are from a local community garden) that plant things the community or manager decides on and you supply labor and get a share of the harvest.

Urban vegetable gardening is the new White People Thing, getting to be very popular with suburban moms, young hipsters, yuppies, loft dwellers and the like.  You can purchase containers that range in size from a few feet to several hundred gallons that provide space for soil, drip irrigation, and rainwater collection.  You can make your own raised beds from simple boxes with cementboard or wood bottoms, a layer of gravel, sides made from 2 x 4 or 2 x 8 slats or fence planks, etc. Add a layer of weedblocker between the gravel and the soil...add organic soil...and then plant away.  I've seen plans for these beds that range from a square foot to 10 x 14 beds that hold quite a bit of food.  There are tons of plans out there for raised beds, all of them easy to create and maintain, and cheap.

Seeds are not too pricey, still, and can be purchased a season or two at a time. Local gardening groups, garden supply places, and community gardens provide great resources for what works when in your area.

There are a ton of books out there on beginning gardening.  I've purchased a couple, as well as a bunch of books on home arts.  Home economics.  Homesteading.  Old fashioned country homestyle living.  Things like, how to can and preserve food.  How to grow things, how to mend things, how to make things from scratch, how to maintain things.  Candle making, baking stuff, building stuff...basic information, stuff kids who grew up on farms or with folks who grew up on farms probably still know.  For instance, my grandparents until recently had a half acre of vegetable garden that they shared with my great-aunt.  They would harvest the veggies, and can the bulk of them, or dry what couldn't be canned.  We (as in, the family) had several cellars that contained shelf after shelf and row after row of canned food, enough to hold us over for years.

Well, maybe five years ago, they stopped gardening.  They're too old now to manage a garden daily.  They still buy in bulk and freeze or can what they buy at farmer's markets.  And the cellars are still about half full.

When I was younger, I couldn't understand why someone would go through all the trouble to save .59 cents on a can of peas.  Why anyone would work so damn hard to make food that could be purchased with less labor.  But I had never lived through a depression, or a war.  My grandparents first had a subsistence garden, then a victory garden, then a "just in case" garden, and eventually they had a luxury garden with a whole shedload of accidentally organic veggies. They did this to maintain their food stores without having to worry about the cost of food or the availability of it.  They did this because everyone in their generation and geographic location did; sometimes you couldn't find corn.  You couldn't buy rice.  You couldn't get whatever you wanted. The idea that food could be scarce...it was something they knew well.

And something I've never had to face.  But the reality is, food will be scarce.  It will be more expensive to buy. It is already scarce in the usual places, a dire condition that cannot be reversed easily.  The best way to deal with this is: make your own food.  There isn't anything stopping us, those few of us reading this, from doing so.  You can provide for yourself.

And, when possible, buy what you need in bulk.  This will help offset the rapid cost increases and the impact that has on your budget.

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The smallest things are sometimes the largest. | 59 comments (59 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Square Foot Gardening by zarathus (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:33:24 PM EST
Have you checked out this gardening technique?  It's what Filip and I use and it works very well.  I have the book and three garden beds that are in their second year now.

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Blogger - n. Someone with nothing to say writing for someone with nothing to do.


Yep. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #9 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:49:22 PM EST
I've got some plans for a few raised beds based roughly on the square foot gardening thing.

I'd like to turn the front yard to a food garden.  That's going to be a while, though.  Need to re-create the entire damn yard.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

This is like the ZOMFG!!1! BUY A HYBRID!!!1! by greyrat (4.00 / 1) #2 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:35:25 PM EST
panic that is going on too. If I had bought a hybrid instead of my Scion, I'd have spent almost $7000 more up front. Say I got a $2000 tax credit if I bought a hybrid, so cut my savings to $5000. Even with Gas at $4.00 a gallon (high for the moment) and my car getting 28MPG (low estimate), I can drive for 35,000 miles. Or -- at 80 miles a day -- 437 days on the money I didn't spend on a hybrid. Note also that I'm not allowing for the possibly higher maintenance costs for a hybrid too.

A home garden will be almost the same way. It'd cost us around $200 to set up and get plants.
We spend about $12 a week (high estimate) for celery, carrots, apples, oranges, bananas, broccoli, romaine lettuce and spinach. So we'll invest 16 weeks worth of produce to set up a garden at home. And then there's the time involved in upkeep. There's the fact that we'll only get lettuce, spinach, tomatoes, peppers, beans, maybe corn. No fruit. And the varmints ('possums, raccoons, moles and deer are guaranteed in or neighborhood) will wreak havoc on the return for whatever we manage to grow. Is that really better?

I will however go full bore on the herb garden because planters on the back deck are not too expensive and relatively easy to maintain.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou


LIES by Rogerborg (4.00 / 1) #4 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:41:41 PM EST
The world was much better when everyone toiled in the fields.  Have you ever seen an unhappy Amish?

-
Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]

Nota bene: Before people start raging. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #8 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:49:21 PM EST
I am not against a home garden. In fact, it's a long term goal for the back yard. What I am trying to point out is that stopping to think whist others are acting in a panic will help expose better reasons for doing or not doing X. And, in fact, We have a 25LB bag of rice in the pantry. And a 15LB bag of flour and probably nearly 10LB of cornmeal. But we always have those. The fact that other people think that's more important not doesn't matter to me.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

A minority of people by blixco (2.00 / 0) #11 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:51:04 PM EST
not panicking does not stem the flood of people who will, absolutely, panic.

Being sensible is a great thing, but most people are not. Speculation and panic will drive the price of food up, regardless of you intention.

---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

And regardless of my intentions, by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #15 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:59:57 PM EST
the price of food will go up. No matter what. I guess I should be panicking instead of being depressed, but I just can't motivate myself to do it.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

Not panic. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #17 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:05:26 PM EST
Panic doesn't help.

Plan.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

/me pours us both another rum by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:16:36 PM EST
"Yep."
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

You don't eat that many vegetables. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #7 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:48:17 PM EST
So if it doesn't make sense to you, then it doesn't make sense to you.

The hybrids are the same: if you were buying a new car of equivalent size and cost, you could save some cash on gas.  But your car gets excellent mileage (near 30mpg is tough to do) and you wanted a cheap car in the short term.  Like most Americans, you have what, a five year horizon?

Do you think gas or food will get less expensive in your life?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Five pounds of carrots in two weeks? by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #12 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:56:55 PM EST
Nearly three pounds of celery? Three pounds of lettuce and spinach? Five pounds of oranges and five of apples? And two or three pounds of bananas? All in two weeks? Is that not that many? Produce at Sam's is cheap.

Also, on the car: Of course the next one may well be a hybrid. There may not be much choice in another eight years or so. My point was that using saving money as a selling point for a hybrid at this point in time only works on people who are bad at math.

And I don't think gas or food will get less expensive in my lifetime. I do think we'll get out of this economic mess as we always have.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

Hybrids do save money by blixco (2.00 / 0) #14 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:58:25 PM EST
over time.

But yeah, most people have very near term thinking. Thus the majority of our problems.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Show you work. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #16 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:04:06 PM EST
I do believe that a current hybrid, with the current technology, at the current time will not save money. Or if it does it'll not be a statisically significant amount. Sadly, I have "work" to do so I'm not going to be able to expand this... But I 'll tuck it away for future research.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

"at the current time" by blixco (2.00 / 0) #18 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:06:06 PM EST
but when gas is 10 bucks a gallon, 40mpg starts looking really nice.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

/me pours us both another whiskey by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #20 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:12:08 PM EST
"Ya' ain't gettin' no argument from me there."

And which hybrids are able to consistently do that today? That's why I didn't do it last time I bought a car. But next time, it will probably make sense.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

Hybrid driver by iGrrrl (4.00 / 1) #31 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:24:35 PM EST
Since 2001. The Prius has over 130K miles on it. It's not only a gas saver, it's a good roomy car with a bigger trunk than you might think, and we haven't needed an SUV.

I've driven the hybrid Civic and didn't like it. The hybrid Highlander is okay, but it's more vehicle than I need. The Prius makes me happy to drive as well as getting good milage and being a SULEV (which is the reason we bought it in 2001--put your money where your politics are).

"I don't have time for martial law, I have to get to the gym!" zarathus
[ Parent ]

Almost three years ago, I looked at the Prius by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #34 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:42:26 PM EST
along with the non-hybrid Civic, the Mazda 3 and the Scion tC. The Prius and Scion won hands down for fit, finish and overall quality, and they were virtually equivalent for personal comfort and interior space. The Prius listed for $25,000, the Scion for $17,000. Now, I might think about it differently today, but considering that we have a lot of house work to save for, it's kind of obvious why the Scion won.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

50 mpg in the Golf by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #52 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:16:15 PM EST
and 44 in the Jetta.

go diesel!

except WTF is up with the recent price gouge?  my butt hurts every time I have to fill up.

ALSO, WTF happened to my biodiesel co-op?  they haven't been open in weeks!

[ Parent ]

Sounds very sensible by Rogerborg (4.00 / 7) #3 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:39:28 PM EST
Just watch out that while you're carefully engaging in your responsible strategic stockpiling, you don't caught up with idiots engaged in panic buying and hoarding.  Maybe you could get hats or something to distinguish you.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.


I suggest tin-foil by greyrat (4.00 / 2) #5 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:44:29 PM EST
It's easy to see at a distance.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

any hat is better than nothing by webwench (4.00 / 2) #10 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:49:32 PM EST
when the sky is falling.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!
[ Parent ]

The sky is falling? by blixco (2.00 / 0) #25 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:45:28 PM EST
Who says?

The math, right now, says: food prices will rise.  The value of the dollar will fall. And food availability will be affected by cost of getting the food to market, the short supply due to poor crop cycles (due in large part of drastic weather), and the increase in population.

So, unless you meant the comment in a vacuum (in which case, hah ha! very funny comment!)...ignorance of the underlying issue doesn't make sense. It may sound alarmist to consider investing in food, but the math makes sense.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

What math says that? by TheophileEscargot (2.00 / 0) #32 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:30:18 PM EST
Is that the same math that a year or two ago was saying "house prices will rise"?

House prices can only go up you know! Put all your money in property now now now!

Fortunately, it's a lot harder to bankrupt yourself buying quantities of rice you can carry home.

But there's no such thing as a market where you can guarantee that prices are going to rise in the short term. If it was possible to predict that reliably, then that future rise would already be factored into the current price.

Anatole Kaletsky had an interesting article on this lately:

Why, then, has a global collapse in credit created a boom in commodity demand? The short answer is that nobody knows. A common explanation in the media is that soaring commodity prices reflect a global panic about inflation, as the Federal Reserve Board supports the US banking system by printing money and slashing interest rates.

This explanation does not pass muster for at least three reasons. First, because US inflationary pressures are already subsiding as a result of the credit crunch and the associated fall in house prices and employment. Secondly, because the ECB and the Bank of England show no sign of imitating the Fed’s expansionary monetary policies, yet commodity prices are soaring in sterling and euros as well as dollars. Thirdly, because the commodities rising fastest – such as rice, wheat and pork – cannot be used as long-term stores of value and so must reflect the balance of supply and demand for instant use, rather than fears about loose monetary policy and its possible effects on inflation many years ahead.

What, then, has suddenly boosted demand for agricultural commodities and how might this be related to the credit crunch? A possible explanation is that the rise in prices itself has triggered a self-sustaining upward spiral of demand, in which investors, wholesalers and final consumers want to buy more of a commodity each time its price rises and this leads to more hoarding and still higher prices. Such self-sustaining price trends are normally rapidly reversed because value-oriented investors and commodity producers start to trade against the trend, selling more each time the price rises. In present conditions, however, it is harder than usual for speculators to trade against the rising price trend, because bank lending has dried up. Several American grain wholesalers, for example, have been pushed towards bankruptcy because they have sold futures against grain supplies they bought in advance from US farmers and have then been unable to finance these temporary “short positions” until the next harvest comes along.

By draining liquidity in this way from all financial markets, the credit crunch has exacerbated trend-following behaviour among investors, promoted stockpiling throughout the global supply chain and encouraged hoarding by consumers. This financially driven process, rather than a sudden increase in Chinese and Indian appetites, has probably been the main cause of this year’s shortfall in global food supplies.


--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

The basics. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #37 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:54:21 PM EST
Over the long term, it makes sense to grow your own food, and to buy what you can in bulk as prices rise. Whether those prices rise because food is scarce or they rise because of speculation and panic is not material to the fact that: the price of food will go up.

And since there isn't an alternative to food (unless you're one of those breatharians), the more of it you can make on your own, the better off you'll be in the short and long term, from a financial as well as health perspective.

Predicting a rise in short term prices would be an interesting piece of magic.  But the short term is what gets us to here, where people are stuck in houses they can't afford because they had a two year horizon.

If you start to establish gardens now, the short term gains may be minor but over ten years, twenty years, you end up with a supply of food and knowledge that can only help.

So that's what I don't get: where is the down side?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Well by TheophileEscargot (2.00 / 0) #43 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:13:29 PM EST
Over the long term, it makes sense to grow your own food, and to buy what you can in bulk as prices rise. Whether those prices rise because food is scarce or they rise because of speculation and panic is not material to the fact that: the price of food will go up.
If the prices are rising due to a speculative bubble, then those prices are going to fall when the bubble bursts. It's extremely material whether the price rise is due to scarcity or speculation.

If the long term trend of lower food prices continues after that bubble, then you've wasted a lot of effort and land. You've also foregone the economic benefits of specialization: it's more efficient to work at something you're good at.

Also, this all seems a bit in contradiction to your other disaster theories.

Remember that the scarcity theory is that the Chinese, newly enwealthened with American cash from their export industry, are eating lots more meat and driving up the price of grain.

Once the US economic catastrophe that you're also expecting kicks in, the Chinese won't have this money anymore, will stop eating meat, and the price of grain will go down again.
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

Wait. by blixco (4.00 / 2) #46 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:01:03 PM EST
I have other disaster theories?

Damn.  I'm pretty good at this hand waving thing.  I should do it for a living.

Oh. Wait. I do.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

oh shi by webwench (4.00 / 1) #57 Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:11:45 AM EST
I failed to stay logged in and missed all the fun

That comment has more than one level.

On the surface, it was a throwaway comment, meant to elicit a grudging chuckle, from whom I am not really sure. This is what my husband calls one of my 'witty comments', and when he uses that term, it is with a mix of respect for the wit, and disapproval of the levity or resignation that is behind the wit.

On a deeper level, no matter how much prices of this or that increase, none of us here have any influence on what increases or by how much, and we can only adjust our lifestyles to accomodate the changes to a pretty limited amount. You can start growing your own veggies, sure, and it's a great idea, but how will you compensate for increased costs of fertilizer and the other tools used to maintain your garden, and the fuel needed to cool and heat your home, and the foodstuff you don't have the ability or the land to grow?... the list goes on. And if the worst comes to pass, can you defend your garden, or have you merely managed to make your home a more attractive target than your neighbors' homes, and provided some armed squatter an especially good organic veggie supply for a few months? Where does that rabbit hole end?)

None of us here have the knowledge or foresight, I'd argue, to know what exactly should be accomodated for, or by how much. So, I have no way to say whether you're being a chicken little or not, reacting unwisely or not, etc. The rise in fuel and grain concerns me a lot also, but I have no idea if it is a real blip, a manufactured blip (election time!), a longterm trend which will proceed slowly, or a meltdown to match any previous meltdown... it makes me glad I bought two 20-lb bags of rice at an Asian market a month ago, and I happen to have a car that will burn most anything for fuel if necessary, but I know these are feeble measures.

When I think of the bigger things the future could hold, they are things I can't really prepare for, and it makes me want to just not think about it any more than necessary. This is less an act of unwitting ignorance, and more a desire not to know more than I already do.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!
[ Parent ]

oh yeah by webwench (4.00 / 1) #58 Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 10:27:28 AM EST
I also meant to say that, on its deepest level, I really do think any measure is better than nothing. Even if it's a tinfoil hate to protect against a meteor, well, you feel better with the hat on, I would guess, than you do without it.

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!
[ Parent ]

tinfoil hate... by chuckles (2.00 / 0) #59 Sat Apr 26, 2008 at 06:35:16 AM EST
I like it!

Skateboarding is a crime.


[ Parent ]

Well, by blixco (2.00 / 0) #6 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:45:09 PM EST
the action may look the same. The motivation is different, though.  If I could have purchased a tanker of gas at 2.00 a gallon a year ago?

I'd be saving a shedload of cash now.

The idea is, grow what you can, buy a lot of what you can't, and in six months I'll spend less on food. The food may still be on the shelves, maybe (though, hey, try to buy a bag of rice at my local grocery store!) but it will cost you 25% more.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Just to quell any by blixco (4.00 / 1) #13 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 01:57:17 PM EST
fears that I have gone off a deep end, I also invest in other futures (from a distance via a brokerage). Nothing too paranoid about that, is there?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin


There's your problem right there! by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #19 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:07:01 PM EST
Filthy markets r stealin' all r monez! And evil brokers too! Righ now, I'm worth about what I was in 1997. I guess I should have panicked and bought gold, oil, and Haliburton. I'd be sitting pretty now.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

gardening by clock (4.00 / 1) #21 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:14:47 PM EST
we (meaning stacky) finally got the recipe for growing tomatoes in h-town right.  we have a pretty good selection coming in.  we also have a TON of herbs that are growing nicely.  as to the produce we buy (and please note that we are not very heavy on the meat at the moment...tho not vegan by any means) we spend under $10/week for the entire household at the farmer's market. 

the stockpiling of flour would make sense for us as we bake our own bread and tasty treats.  overall, i think we're doing OK on that front.  with two TDIs in the driveway getting 49 mpg apiece, we won't be in the worst shape ever.

what we need are chickens.


Clock is right. [nt] --vorheesleatherface



Gardening for your area by blixco (4.00 / 1) #26 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:46:43 PM EST
Have you seen Urban Harvest? They're local to you.  Good group of folks, they have a whole ton of knowledge on the local crop capability.
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

actually... by clock (4.00 / 1) #27 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:59:36 PM EST
...yeah.  stacky has been all over that site.  good stuff!


Clock is right. [nt] --vorheesleatherface

[ Parent ]

note by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #53 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 09:20:04 PM EST
the Jetta only gets 44 mpg.  Heavier car, plus I'm not as good of a driver as clock is.

but the Farmer's Market rocks!  $10/week on a frakton of veggies.

[ Parent ]

did you say "frakton"? by clock (2.00 / 0) #54 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:03:13 PM EST
what am i gonna do with you?


Clock is right. [nt] --vorheesleatherface

[ Parent ]

I plan by Gedvondur (4.00 / 2) #23 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:37:18 PM EST
On putting my garden right next to my fallout shelter, which is right next to my Y2K food storage facility.  Come to think of it, the second might come in handy.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz


Why is by blixco (4.00 / 1) #24 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 02:42:00 PM EST
planning, and investment, considered some sort of hand waving panic?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Caaalm down. I believe most of us are funnin' ya'. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #28 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:05:35 PM EST
I know I am. I certainly agree with what you're doing. And I'd be doing it too if it was just --> <-- this much more financially reasonable.
~
There is no correlation or causation amongst intelligence, power, talent and wealth.
Khanyou
[ Parent ]

Because by Gedvondur (4.00 / 1) #33 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:34:49 PM EST
It sounds like this:  "But the reality is, food will be scarce."

I fully support the idea of gardens and such.  As a child both my parents and my maternal grandfather maintained vast vegetable gardens.  I've gardened plenty.  I've weeded myself out, if you can pardon the pun.

But I gotta tell ya, your post is placed a little to close to the current MSM panic about rice.  That's why it seems less reasonable than it really is.

On top of that, if I ripped up every last inch of lawn and planted it in vegetables and went through the canning hassle, I'm not sure I could plant enough for the year anyway.  Maybe.  I would have to be selective about what I planted.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz
[ Parent ]

Food will be scarce. by blixco (4.00 / 1) #40 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:01:51 PM EST
It currently is, in places that it was not.

This may be due to a number of ridiculous factors.

It my continue to do this.  Other commodities have been costing more or have been affected by a falling dollar.

To offset this, growing your own food is a great idea.  It saves money. Over a long term, it will save a lot. Ten years worth of gardening produces a crapload of food.

Now, self-suffiency? Whole other thing. You need more land, effort, expertise, and a toolset that most of us can't even begin to use. But an offset in panic-driven price rises would be cool, no?
---------------------------------
"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Well by Gedvondur (4.00 / 1) #42 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:04:39 PM EST
"But an offset in panic-driven price rises would be cool, no?"

Now, that I can't really argue with.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz
[ Parent ]

Forget vegetables, plant hops! by georgeha (4.00 / 2) #44 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:26:03 PM EST
We're in a dire hop crisis, have you priced beer lately?


[ Parent ]

Heh by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #51 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:52:01 PM EST
Already done.  Cascade, Nugget, and Sterling.

Gedvondur
"If you do not sin, then you too may some day float like a big pink Goodyear blimp of The Lord." -theboz
[ Parent ]

food by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #29 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:09:28 PM EST
Modern food prices are at unprecedented lows in the Western world. Historically, food has been the biggest cost item while in the west these days, housing costs tend to outweigh food by a wide margin. Those food crisis is mostly hitting those third world areas where a 50% increase means starvation. Most Americans could deal with a 50% increase simply by eating more responsibly.
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ウセーバラケダ


Indeed, by blixco (2.00 / 0) #35 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:45:13 PM EST
however, the price of food is still going to go up.  It certainly won't fall.
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Sure by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #36 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:50:05 PM EST
I don't know about you, but I know that I could personally cut my family's food budget to a quarter buy changing the way we shop and not eating out.
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ウセーバラケダ
[ Parent ]

Yep. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #38 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:57:50 PM EST
Most people can.  My shopping is selective of quality and location of food, and for that I pay small producers more cash.  I'd be able to get that same quality for "free" if it were growing right now in my yard.  I could also eliminate the need for quality and buy cheap vegetables and foreign meat, and save roughly 40 percent of my food bill.  Just by doing that.  I could save another eight percent by buying more prepared foods (it worked out to between eight and twelve percent with the prepared foods we'd buy, based on taste and trend).

Since food is one of the big three expenses in our house, I've spent way more time thinking about it than I should.  But it makes sense to make my own.  To buy it now in bulk as prices rise.  And to do what I can to help other people do the same.
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

yes by MillMan (4.00 / 1) #45 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:53:16 PM EST
and there will be a rough price ceiling (which the wealthy world will be able to afford) because a lot of the developing world will starve to death as food continues to get more expensive, reducing demand.

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?
[ Parent ]

Yeah by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #49 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:04:25 PM EST
That was my biggest problem with Jared Diamond's "Collapse". He had some dire warnings about the poor starving masses rising and destroying the complacent rich Westerners because of ecological disaster.

Far more likely is that ecological disaster causes lots of poor people to starve while rich Westerners whine about the cost of their lattes while tut-tuting about all of that third world genocide.
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ウセーバラケダ
[ Parent ]

there will be by MillMan (2.00 / 0) #50 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 06:29:06 PM EST
severe levels of internal collapse and violence in countries like Egypt and Bangladesh before mass migration starts, and there isn't any travel infrastructure in place to get them to richer countries anyway.

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?
[ Parent ]

Urban gardening tip by chuckles (4.00 / 5) #30 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:12:22 PM EST
You can use Google Earth to figure out which of your neighbors have backyard gardens, and you can raid those gardens at night.

Skateboarding is a crime.




Food by ni (2.00 / 0) #39 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 03:59:22 PM EST
While I'm sure you're telling the truth, I cannot fathom how it is possible for two people to spend $70 a week in vegetables. I spend at most $10 a week on vegetables. That is on particularly vegetable heavy weeks. And I'm vegetarian.

So what's the deal? Is this because of the organic tax? Are you not shopping cleverly? Are vegetables freakishly cheap up here in the frozen north?


"These days it seems like sometimes dreams of Italian hyper-gonadism are all a man's got to keep him going." -- CRwM


Quality, and quantity. by blixco (2.00 / 0) #41 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 04:04:16 PM EST
That $70 a week is my greenling.com bill, which, to be fair, includes eggs, honey, cheese, and sometimes other crap.

So let's shoot for $40.

That's for locally grown organic veggies, so, yes.  That's the cost of doing business with small suppliers who don't have a lot of output.

I could save a LOT of cash by no longer doing that. I choose, at this point, not to sacrifice quality because I can afford it.  In the future, I won't need to buy as much from them, since I'll be producing my own.
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
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I'm just going to eat poor people. by mrgoat (4.00 / 2) #47 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:21:54 PM EST
I've been stockpiling them for a while now in the basement.

I hope they're still good.

Years pass, things change, you end up living in Kansas. But the bag of dicks never leaves your side... - blixco
--top hat--


Depends on how you kept them. by blixco (4.00 / 2) #48 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 05:39:27 PM EST
Were they smokers?
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
[ Parent ]

Some of them. by mrgoat (4.00 / 2) #55 Thu Apr 24, 2008 at 10:18:29 PM EST
But since when is crack a preservative?

Years pass, things change, you end up living in Kansas. But the bag of dicks never leaves your side... - blixco
--top hat--
[ Parent ]

I need to spend some time with my dad. by Sapphire (4.00 / 1) #56 Fri Apr 25, 2008 at 08:23:02 AM EST
He is a talented gardener.  He reaps such amazing fruit and vegetables in the summer and fall.  I need to learn the art.  BB worked on a farm when he was younger. 

Good luck!  Thanks for the advice!



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