Print Story $politician, you are dead to me.
Ranting
By aphrael (Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 08:43:49 AM EST) (all tags)
Every election there are some politicians who, despite the fact that they are not running for an office for which I can vote for or against them, do something which so offends me that they enter themselves into a list of people I am permanently opposed to voting for.

This year there were four.



Exhibit #1: Michelle Bachmann. Calling for investigations into the loyalty of Congresspeople is a deal breaker.

Exhibit #2: Elizabeth Dole. Attacking someone because they took money from the Godless Americans PAC? What, the Godless aren't Americans too?

Exhibit #3: Kay Hagan. I'm glad she defeated Sen. Dole, but she reacted to the ad by suing Dole for defamation!. That's only marginally better than running the ad in the first place.

Exhibit #4: Arnold Schwarzenegger. This socially liberal fiscally conservative Republican was opposed to Proposition 8 ... and didn't do a damned thing to help prevent its passage. The numbers were narrow enough that he could have made the difference.

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$politician, you are dead to me. | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
I don't think Kay Hagan overreacted. -nt by chuckles (2.00 / 0) #1 Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 11:40:12 AM EST


"The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin [...] would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities"
I don't understand the Hagan deal by lm (2.00 / 0) #2 Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 01:50:08 PM EST
I could understand if you thought she screwed the pooch by not standing up for free thinkers. But if she is a Christian, I would think that Dole's commercial would have been like a knife to her heart.

Try thinking of yourself in a similar situation with regards to a belief that you hold dear.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
Also, IIRC by R343L (2.00 / 0) #3 Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 02:00:50 PM EST
I believe Dole's ad had a voiceover implied to be Hagan herself saying "There is no God" or something similar. That's a pretty strong knife to the heart for people to think you are just pretending to be a Presbyterian elder and don't really believe what you're preaching to your congregation (okay, elders don't preach, per se, but they are expected to be leaders in their church).

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]
I don't understand why by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #4 Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 03:09:29 PM EST
Arnold didn't speak up. Maria Shriver was quite vocal about voting against Prop 8.

But then there seems to be a lot of folks in the public eye who didn't act.




A purpose gives you a reason to wake up every morning.
So a purpose is like a box of powdered donut holes?
Exactly
My Name is Earl

three weeks ago by dr k (4.00 / 1) #5 Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 03:43:28 PM EST
polling indicated a likely defeat for Prop 8. Two weeks ago conservative interest groups started goosing their members to spread the word in favor of 8.

I also suspect that the negative purpose of the proposition confused some voters. If you supported a ban on gay marriage you voted yes, if you supported gay marriage (and were therefore against a ban on gay marriage) you were supposed to vote no.

:| :| :| :| :|

[ Parent ]
Other fish to fry by ucblockhead (4.00 / 1) #9 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 06:46:42 AM EST
Probably because Arnie was too busy trying to keep the state from going bankrupt. Given his day-after-the-election tax hike proposal, I strongly suspect he was busy making deals with Republican assemblymen and didn't want to sour them. It is the basic problem with civil rights that in general, many supporters just don't care enough to actually *do* much.
---
[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
Hagan by ReallyEvilCanine (2.00 / 0) #6 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 12:26:48 AM EST
First she sent a C&D. Dole ignored it. Only then did she sue. Defamation is hard enough to prove as a private citizen and next to impossible as a public figure. It's even harder for a politician and yet she went on with it because it was clearly defamation, mischaracterisation and possibly malicious fraud.

the internet: amplifier of stupidity -- discordia

it's only defamation by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 06:31:45 AM EST
if you believe that it defames someone to say that they are friends with atheists.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]
O HAI! HAV U HERD OF NORTH KAROLYNAS? by ReallyEvilCanine (2.00 / 0) #8 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 06:43:01 AM EST
Ever been there? They're seriously fucking religious there and this is easily defamation. You're a legal guy; how did you miss the rest of the potential charges? Me, I'd be angry at someone saying I adhere to any religion but I'm not running for NC Senate.

the internet: amplifier of stupidity -- discordia

[ Parent ]
yes i've been to NC. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #11 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:03:04 AM EST
although it's possible that fayettenam isn't NC.

that said:

it's next to impossible to libel a public figure.

and the notion that it's libelous to call someone an athiest is itself risible.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
It isn't risible to North Carolinians. by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 1) #12 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:14:43 AM EST

While difficult to believe, you will find that different parts of the country actually have people with beliefs that are not your own living in them.

And no, Fayettenam isn't part of North Carolina, it's a military zone. I would venture a guess that less than 10% of the people who live within 20 miles of Fayetteville are from North Carolina, originally.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
wow. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #13 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 08:25:11 AM EST
Actually, yes. That is entirely within the by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #14 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 09:36:52 AM EST

realm of possibility. I toned down the condescension quite a bit, actually, in an effort to remain "civil".


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
i admit i'm overly sensitive right now by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #15 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 11:07:37 AM EST
but you failed to keep to the civil side of that line.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]
Lower your expectations. by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 12:06:48 PM EST

I'm already compromising, and not willing to get nicer than I already am.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
i'm beginning to think by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #17 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:01:18 PM EST
that you're engaged in the game of deliberately driving people away from you because you're afraid to have people like you.

it's a bit depressing, really.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
Alright, dude, let's go over this by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #18 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:29:19 PM EST

in very simple terms; what I said was that people in North Carolina don't hold the same views as you, personally, do. I implied that they might be predominantly more religious than you, and you, less religious than them. Somehow, you managed to take offense to this, and now you've turned the conversation into amateur psychobabble about me, which is outside of your realm of expertise (both the psychobabble, and the subject of me). I fail to see what you're upset about in the first place, as all I suggested was that your views are not the same as those of North Carolinians. That doesn't seem the least bit offensive to me, yet, you're offended. I'd apologize if I crossed some sort of line, but there's a zero percent chance I did, so you'll get nothing of the sort from me.

While I'm fascinated by your evaluation of my psychological state, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said, nor your response to it.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
what i took offense to by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:33:33 PM EST
While difficult to believe, you will find that different parts of the country actually have people with beliefs that are not your own living in them.

"while difficult to believe", "you will find" "actually have".

you're telling me something which is blindingly obvious to anyone who has ever been outside of their hometown in a tone which implies that you think I don't know it.

I think most people would find that offensive.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
Ah, so my semantic choices offend you. by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #20 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:35:48 PM EST

You'll get over it, eventually. It's called "sarcasm", and sometimes people use it instead of being earnest in order to convey the obviousness of what they're saying.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
sarcasm is often unnecessarily abrasive. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #21 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:44:00 PM EST
which might have something to do with my developing beliefs about your psychology.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]
You see sarcasm as a symptom of psychological by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 02:49:10 PM EST

problems, and I see earnestness as a sign of naiveté. I am decidedly abrasive, though I assure you, I am actually a lot meaner and more abrasive to people I don't know than I'm being here to you. While you don't appreciate that, it doesn't change the facts.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
erm by R343L (4.00 / 1) #10 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 07:20:45 AM EST
The ad outright shows "Hagan" (the actress-voiceover) saying she doesn't believe in God. How is that not defamation to put words in your mouth exactly opposite what you believe? And that would seriously affect your standing in the community.

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot

[ Parent ]
I'm not certain that is a correct view by lm (4.00 / 1) #23 Fri Nov 07, 2008 at 04:29:52 PM EST
I think the defamation is more along the lines of the allegation that a Sunday school teacher and congregational leader doesn't actually believe in God.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Hagan would have sued if the ad merely pointed out that Hagan has friends who are atheists.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
$politician, you are dead to me. | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback