Print Story Grumbling and Bellyaching
Wizards and Hobbits
By slozo (Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:56:54 AM EST) (all tags)
I'm not complaining or anything, but I find the majority of whinging, wining, bitching and bemoaning to be a result of laziness, decadence, and lack of empathy . . .


. . . of course, this is just a minor grievance.

For starters, not very many at all on this site are residents of anything resembling an impoverished country. So few as to be uncountable . . . after all, the internet, although it has become more accessible for the mainstream poor, still is, I contend, the milieu of the relatively wealthy (relative wealth in each country/region).

That being said, a decent amount of people on this site have been abroad and seen some things in some countries. I am not talking of the side trip to get some fresh mangoes at the side of the grocery store just outside the all-inclusive resort/fortress. I am also not talking of the weekend trip to a poor country, harboured within a small group of friends at some posh hotel, or attending a work conference. No - I speak of local integration, even in its briefest form - the sharing and self-experience of common, everyday travails that the poor and downtrodden go through everyday. After that hour on the chicken bus, that night in the hammock/tent, that hike through the jungle (with no ewer), even those 20 minutes in the crazy, dirty little town, looking for a payphone - one appreciates things. One understands, even for the briefest of fleeting thoughts, that we have it good. So good indeed. But somehow, two weeks later, some will still manage to complain all day about the idiot bus driver who passed by their stop, forcing them to shell out 10 bucks for a cab. One quickly forgets the two mile walk for potable water required every day by some distant villager. The dirt floors, horrifically unsanitary outdoor toilet, the ever present threat of violence from around the next corner. Damn that asshole, I'm phoning the transit authority - someone's head is gonna roll!

Well, we can certainly ensure standards, vie for perfection of services, and demand satisfaction. It's well within our rights, and I'm not saying it's wrong to do those things, but . . . it's also easy to lose sight of exactly how easy it is for us 'here'.

We have it so easy. It's funny, whenever I say that phrase, I, like many others, think of my parents relating hardships from childhood. My parents were immigrants from a war torn country, and both spent time as children running from armies, seeing death, spending time in DP camps. Fun stuff it wasn't, and later, like so many other immigrants, they worked their asses off to gain financial respectability and social integration. It was a damn sight harder life than most; but certainly, quite a few have had it worse . . . unfortunately, some of those much worse. We often say of that older generation, "It was a different era, a different time", yet those hard times continue for much of the world, perhaps most of the world.

Thinking of this past generation, and their constant reminders for us to appreciate what we have - I actually see no difference in the level of griping, bitching and complaining. I mean, between my generation, or the ones ahead of mine - and theirs. Yet the wealth of pain and hardship they endured outstrips mine by a fair bit. It all comes down to perspective, and what we have to deal with everyday, what is perceived to be normal, what is thought to be acceptable. Most people like to think they are very grateful, but most aren't, really.

Captivated by the TV, a man automatically presses the channel changer, as an image of dying, malnutritioned children surfaces. Is he an asshole because he chooses to not think about giving money to some charity, helping out victims of war and famine? I don't think so, no. But the conditioned reflex to not think for even a second about the common everyday hardships, tortures, and struggles of most of the world - this, I think, is wrong. I don't mean to say that we should be consumed by it, nor even that we all must put forward some humanitarian effort and extend a helping hand. My only contention is that we should be mindful of it. Human compassion dictates that we should try to understand, try to imagine, try to appreciate; and that we should be sorry for, saddened by, and regretful of. The only decent thing to do is to remove oneself from the insulating cocoon of wealth and wellbeing, and think of those less fortunate. This does not mean lying in a molasses-like pool of guilt thinking about it (however guilty we may be of inducing others to poverty and death, mind you), nor does it necessitate being preachy to others to give give give. Simply, it is the acknowledgement of others less fortunate. More broadly, it is respect and understanding of a highly advantaged position in life.

If only we could think of this before complaining about trivialities. Little things - nay, tiny things, that when remarked upon, make the western world look opulent and ignorant, decadent and disparaging.

We could all do with less complaints.

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Grumbling and Bellyaching | 42 comments (42 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
While it is true by komet (4.00 / 3) #1 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:16:04 AM EST
that I avoid reading the Husi diaries of those whose entries generally consist of complaining, I fail to see how this entry isn't itself a whine-fest, and a long-winded one at that.

One should also not forget that complaining is one of the few things that people are universally good at, and therefore whining is a great engine of inter-cultural communication and hence contributes to world peace.

--
<ni> komet: You are functionally illiterate as regards trashy erotica.


Thanks for the input . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #2 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:23:53 AM EST
. . . your complaint has been received.

[ Parent ]

I think I failed to get across by komet (2.00 / 0) #34 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 08:44:32 AM EST
that I fully agree with you.

--
<ni> komet: You are functionally illiterate as regards trashy erotica.
[ Parent ]

there's something to this by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #19 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:45:17 PM EST
i think that complaining to our friends, and listening in turn to them complaining, is one of the ways we bond.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

so what you're saying is by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #3 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:34:25 AM EST
you're a whiny bitch just like the rest of us.

what's your point?

also: would you like a list of the things I haven't complained about today, but have reduced me to tears at least 3 times this morning? 



Some sometimeses by Merekat (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:47:05 AM EST
Sometimes one whines about the small safe things as a form of safety valve.
Sometimes it is because the big horrible things are too private to be dealt with online. 
Sometimes we should complain about trivialities because they are fixable with so little effort, remembering progress is not equally distributed and to stop on one place merely because somewhere else is further behind is not necessarily appropriate. 
Some cultures have an ernestness taboo and need to  use small, insignificant moaning as one of the few forms of human connection that can be made.
Sometimes complaining is just a vehicle for humour.

And yeah, sometimes it can get on ones nerves.



I admit, that I lose sight of the fact that in the by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #5 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:48:04 AM EST
first world, problems caused by dysfunctional abusive families of origin that affect the person, their spouse and their children for decades after, even with copious amounts of therapy and drugs, just don't exist.




i don't think anyone is saying that. by aphrael (4.00 / 2) #20 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:46:01 PM EST
But the problems caused by dysfunctional abusive families that affect someone for decades after simply are not as severe as the problems caused by  serious starvation and war.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

relativity by clock (4.00 / 3) #6 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 12:01:34 PM EST
i've thought this through many times (this week, in fact) and the bottom line is that human experience is relative.  if a girl has to walk 2 miles every day for a bucket of potable water, does it hurt any more or less when a boy doesn't like her?  no.  her walk for that water is part of her life.  it provides the baseline for her existence.  it doesn't make her any better or nobler than you or i who have only to cross the room for a glass of water.

and if she complains about that walk?  well, she likely wouldn't.

do i have it easier (physically) than my grandfather who worked in a coal mine in 14 hour shifts 5 days a week and spent the other two days doing 12 hour shifts on the railroad only to die at the ripe old age of 50 from a heart attack?  yes.  does that make paying my bills suck any less?  does it make getting to the end of the work day easier?  i don't really know.  trade offs: physical for psychological.

it's easy to say that things like the cable going out pale in comparison to not being able to find food to eat.  and it's true.  it's perhaps a little more difficult to accept that things change, including expectations for day to day life.  that's part of what they were working for, our forebears, right?  my grandfather probably WANTED for me to EXPECT a desk job at 40 hours a week with benefits, etc.  (i don't, btw...i don't expect shit...i'm too pragmatic for that).

i guess this is a long way to say that i agree with your sentiment but not with how you got there.  to deal with people every day requires that we remember frame of reference.  everyone has one and every one's is different.


Clock is right. [nt] --vorheesleatherface



Well said, and I agree . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #8 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 01:20:20 PM EST
. . . that it (complaining) certainly hinges on frame of reference - to a point. It is also somewhat unmeasurable, the things that set us off . . . but there are people who bitch a lot, and people who don't, who have very similar points of reference. We all assimilate and process our stimuli differently, and react differently for a thousand reasons, many of them understandable . . . alas - many of those reasons, especially for the privelaged (as we are), seem to be hinged minor inconveniences, many of them self-created.

[ Parent ]

DoH! Why can't . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #12 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 02:47:56 PM EST
. . . I spell privilege!?!

[ Parent ]

Whining and humour by Phage (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 12:11:16 PM EST
are definitive traits of our species.
I liked clocks take on this.

The Czar of Accounting. No Nit Too Small To Pick


So, the bus driver shot past you today? by atreides (2.00 / 0) #9 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 02:06:48 PM EST
Seriously, we're not really suffering, but sharing our miseries, no matter how weak or benign they are, is one of those things that people do. I feel the way you describe when I listen to someone complain how their 401K isn't keeping up with their investments or their mochafrappalatte is regular and not decaf. I mean, hasn't this guy ever had to do manual labor or have to make the choice between money for rent and money for food? On the other hand, I've never had to walk 5 miles to go to school or be afraid the water I'm drinking might give me something other than a hard limestony taste in my mouth.

We all bitch. We all complain. That's what we do. I believe that discontent is the first step in the progress of a man or a nation. It's just that some people have progressed beyond a reality of true need and into one of luxury. But we whine nonetheless. And "my car makes a funny noise" sure beats the hell out of "my cave is cold".

He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope.


Well, the drive to work was fine . . . by slozo (4.00 / 1) #11 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 02:41:43 PM EST
. . . the traffic was certainly nothing to complain about.

I am surprised by the husi'ites that sort of . . . well, took my offhand wonderings to heart, as if I had been upset about everyone here complaining too much. Although slightly comical to me, the first couple of posts were exactly indicative of the sort of thing I was talking about - complaining for the sake of complaining, trying to say something mean because they had nothing better to say.

And I have no huge problem with people on this site who complain about major problems in their lives, relating things to people like you and I. Some of them I sympathise with, others I think of as silly trifles - as you said, it is natural to do this as a social construct. This is certainly the place to do it. I have certainly complained about numerous things many times (although according to my poll, no one here complains!), much of the discontent being unnecessary.

I am (was) talking about negative bitching with little to no purpose, especially the complaints predicated on creature comforts. It's funny, because I was thinking the whole time about situations revolving around myself in realspace as I was writing it, but it seems everyone took it as an indictment on the writing styles here. Whether that is the result of the guilty feeling that they have been accused, or that I didn't phrase it very well - I'm not sure.

Either way - I agree with you about discontent, it is the mother of invention, in some ways. But bitching about the weather isn't going to cause the invention of anything . . .

[ Parent ]

that's normal ... by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #24 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:02:50 PM EST
I am surprised by the husi'ites that sort of . . . well, took my offhand wonderings to heart, as if I had been upset about everyone here complaining too much.

Hmm. I think it's a natural human trait to wonder if something is about you, even if it probably isn't.

I mean, fuck, that plane crashing in Brazil? TOTALLY MY FAULT. right?

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

Well,actually... by atreides (2.00 / 0) #32 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:51:50 PM EST
...if enough people bitch about the weather, then someone might turn the orbital mind control lasers into orbital weather control lasers...

If enough people bitch, that is... :P

Besides, I think that petty bitching is one of the founding ideas behind the proverbial "Hole" that everyone keeps posting to. There are certainly enough things that I feel like bitching about at the moment, but wouldn't need to look back on a year from now in the archives or somesuch...

He sails from world to world in a flying tomb, serving gods who eat hope.
[ Parent ]

i'm lucky by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #21 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:49:54 PM EST
i've never had to do manual labor, although I have chosen to do so for brief periods of time; and i've never had to choose between rent or food (although I know how I would choose, if I did).

That said, I have had to walk five miles a day to get things done, and I have been afraid of my drinking water; so perhaps those balance. :)

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

You've heard the bit by muchagecko (4.00 / 2) #10 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 02:35:21 PM EST
about the 911 survivors?

The head of a company survived 9/11 because his son started kindergarten.
Another fellow was alive because it was his turn to bring donuts.
One woman was late because her alarm clock didn’t go off in time.
One was late because of being stuck on the NJ Turnpike because of an auto accident.
One of them missed his bus.
One spilled food on her clothes and had to take time to change.
One’s car wouldn’t start.
One went back to answer the telephone .
One had a child that dawdled and didn’t get ready as soon as he should have.
One couldn’t get a taxi.
The one that struck me was the man who put on a new pair of shoes that morning, took the various means to get to work But before he got there, he developed a blister on his foot. He stopped at a drugstore to buy a Band-Aid, that is why he is alive today.

I agree with you - focus on the positive and let the negative just go away.

The only people to get even with are those that have helped you.


i have one to add by StackyMcRacky (4.00 / 1) #13 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 03:02:41 PM EST
my sister usually met a friend of hers for breakfast in the subway area under the WTC.  he had called her that morning and cancelled, because he had an early meeting.

she was at home in brooklyn when it all went down.

[ Parent ]

I bet she was pissed by muchagecko (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 04:01:18 PM EST
that he cancelled so late. ;P

I hope her friend's meeting was somewhere other than WTC.

The only people to get even with are those that have helped you.
[ Parent ]

yeah. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #22 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:51:02 PM EST
he wasn't there either by StackyMcRacky (2.00 / 0) #27 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:39:09 PM EST
it was just a mutual meeting place for the both of them.

[ Parent ]

Do you have faith no more? by lm (4.00 / 1) #14 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 03:37:37 PM EST
We care a lot about disasters, fires, floods and killer bees. We care a lot about the NASA shuttle falling in the sea. We care a lot about starvation and the food that Live Aid bought. We care a lot about disease, baby Rock, Hudson, rock, yeah!

We care a lot about the gamblers and the pushers and the geeks. We care a lot about the crack and smack and whack that hits the street. We care a lot about the welfare of all the boys and girls. We care a lot about you people cause we're out to save the world

YEAH!


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic


utoob is censored at my work . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #15 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 03:51:05 PM EST
. . . but I swear, I'm not complaining about it. I assume you speak of the band, and not my own religious beliefs or lack thereof?

[ Parent ]

You can always try that link when you get home by lm (2.00 / 0) #17 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 04:55:50 PM EST
Or maybe not, depending on whether or not you care. What exactly I'm getting at was left as an exercise for the reader.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Ok . . . my take on the song . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #29 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:20:43 PM EST
. . . coupled with the video, is that they are lampooning any band/celebrity saying they "care a lot" about something, taking up the cause of the moment. The ridiculous outfits, coupled with the hamming it up (or is it just the eighties?!?) and the simplistic lyrics al point to this, but who knows - I could be reading into it too much. Anyway, the inference I can make from your placement of this link here, is that you are suggesting I am trying to make myself look good by attempting to seem as if I really care about the downtrodden and less fortunate, and that it is only for show. I would be stating things as to (as CBB once coined), "embiggen myself", gaining all valuable 'net cred.

Or, quite possibly, you mean to just point that out for the general reader, suggesting that simply thinking about the less fortunate while reaping the rewards of a luxurous lifestyle is fruitless and idiotic. A pointless endeavour only serving ego, not reality.

As an exercise for the reader, I will let you come to your own conclusions as to which point I will concede - point taken.

[ Parent ]

Also . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #33 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 07:25:22 AM EST
. . . you're Cicero quote reminded me of his "six mistakes of man", something I had committed to memory at one point in my life, carrying the written version in my wallet. Despite that, I had to look it up this morning to recall #2:

2. The tendency to worry about things that cannot be changed or corrected.

Strangely, this line can be interpreted as supporting my suggestion to not complain (voicing worries) about the trivial things - most often things we cannot change or correct. Conversely, one could apply it to mean we should not bother to worry about the savage plight of the damned, as we cannot effectively change the natural course of the haves and have nots.

Which position do you take - or is there something in between?

[ Parent ]

I'm not certain I really understand what you mean by lm (2.00 / 0) #35 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 08:56:02 AM EST
I don't see a connection between worrying about things that can't be changed and complaining. Are you saying that complaining about something entails worrying about it? That most people complain most about things that can't be changed?

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

I see that you are . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #36 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 09:41:41 AM EST
. . . making a clear distinction between worry and complaint. Fair enough, but I tend to think of it as a blurrier line.

Irritant leads to annoyance. Annoyance leads to complaint. Sustained complaint leads to eventual worry (a known issue/problem to worry about).

Most people complain most about things that can't be changed . . . not sure, but I would say that we complain much more about what we can change. This is more a result of people not realising what they can/cannot effectively change, though . . .

[ Parent ]

the fact that life is so good by alprazolam (2.00 / 0) #18 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:31:29 PM EST
makes it pretty easy to be constantly disappointed in and unsatisfied with yourself.



sometimes by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #23 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 05:51:42 PM EST
i think that being constantly disappointed in and unsatisfied with yourself is an excuse for not doing the work to make things better.


If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

sure by alprazolam (2.00 / 0) #25 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:18:58 PM EST
it's hard to turn it around once you've given up on yourself tho.

[ Parent ]

don't give up on yourself. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #26 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:31:47 PM EST
too late by alprazolam (2.00 / 0) #37 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 11:20:41 AM EST
thanks anyway...it's not really as bad as it sounds though.

[ Parent ]

saying that by MillMan (4.00 / 1) #28 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:55:26 PM EST
"we don't get to complain because others have it so much worse" is a fantastic way to gloss over the severe deficiencies of the culture we live in. Starvation is an undesirable physical extreme; a superficial, alienated, and material existence is an undesirable psychological extreme.

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?


Interesting criticism . . . by slozo (4.00 / 1) #30 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:30:34 PM EST
. . . I find that many of you are finding new and interesting ways to disagree with the idea that superfluous complaints from the privileged are unnecessary.

Yes, we live a very materialistic existence; I wouldn't say it's the extreme of that, though. We are superficial in the west, yes.

How is my commentary glossing over that?

[ Parent ]

err by MillMan (2.00 / 0) #31 Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:38:14 PM EST
"I find that many of you are finding new and interesting ways to disagree with the idea that superfluous complaints from the privileged are unnecessary."

If you take the word "superfluous" out of that sentence, we have something to talk about. Or if you can define "superfluous complaints."

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?
[ Parent ]

"DP camp?" by Breaker (4.00 / 1) #38 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 02:06:30 PM EST
I'm pretty sure that's not what I first thought it was.




Displaced Persons Camp . . . by slozo (2.00 / 0) #39 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 02:58:16 PM EST
. . . was where they sent refugees from other countries. Germany was full of them after the war, and that's where both of my parents spent some time with their families - my dad for longer, a couple of years, I think. Usually they grouped you by country/ethnic community.

[ Parent ]

OK by Breaker (4.00 / 3) #40 Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 06:08:27 PM EST
GIYF for the more common meaning of "DP"...

The intarwebnet has ruined me.


[ Parent ]

IAWTP. by hulver (2.00 / 0) #41 Fri Jul 20, 2007 at 07:29:42 AM EST

--
smart, pretty, sane. pick two - georgeha
[ Parent ]

Time and time again by ni (2.00 / 0) #42 Sun Jul 22, 2007 at 01:28:30 AM EST
I wish I got one comment a month to rate 20.


"Not of this world..." -- 256, on the subject of the New Jersey Turnpike
[ Parent ]

Grumbling and Bellyaching | 42 comments (42 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback