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By ad hoc (Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 10:38:48 AM EST) (all tags)
Is that strictly a Catholic swear?


Because that's the first thing that went through my head when I saw this morning that my health insurance premium will be going up no less than $218.59 per month.

That's the increase, not the premium.

51%. In one year. Not including co-pays.

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Holy Mother of God | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
You don't have to be Catholic or formerly Catholic by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 2) #1 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 10:48:58 AM EST

to use it, but I believe that's where it stems from. Chances are good, seeing as how they dominated the "Holy Mother of Whatever" field for a good century before they even held the vote to deify Jebus.


You will find, as well, that former Catholics tend to use the "Holy Mother of Fuck" instead of the standard issue curse. This makes it easier to identify them in Northern Irish pubs, and is in effect a way of lasing the proverbial target. I should know; my people were preyed on for over 400 years for that fucking shit. That, and all the killing they engaged in.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
(Comment Deleted) by yicky yacky (4.00 / 2) #23 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:22:18 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by yicky yacky



[ Parent ]
Nope. by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 2) #24 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:22:55 AM EST

I'm first-gen, baby.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
(Comment Deleted) by yicky yacky (4.00 / 2) #25 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:25:17 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by yicky yacky



[ Parent ]
A wise and stately three year old, I was by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 3) #26 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:30:40 AM EST

Although with a little shuffling back and forth before and after, I assure I grew up confused. Ah, to be labelled traitor by those you left and alien by those you joined...


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
(Comment Deleted) by yicky yacky (4.00 / 3) #27 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:36:46 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by yicky yacky



[ Parent ]
Who, them? by MohammedNiyalSayeed (4.00 / 3) #28 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:49:15 AM EST

Oh, they aren't with me... They know full well they aren't with me.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
True, but in Canada with socialized health care by georgeha (4.00 / 3) #2 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 10:49:24 AM EST
you'd be put on an ice floe and pushed out into Hudson Bay, after waiting 6 months.

I don't know how much my premium is going up. I do know $5000 for a flex account for medical and dental expenses is about $2000 too low for my family.


Also by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #3 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 11:35:44 AM EST
co-pays are doubling.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
It's sick by Bob Abooey (4.00 / 2) #4 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 11:57:50 AM EST
I guess it's okay to profiteer when you're a oil company or healthcare agency.

If healthcare isn't one of the top issues in the 08 race then the unwashed masses are dumber than a wheelbarrow full of bricks.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.

And this is Blue Cross by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #6 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:22:49 PM EST
a "non-profit" agency.

I still don't think people know just how much it costs considering The Man pays for the bulk of it.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.

[ Parent ]
It will likely be more than that. by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #8 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:25:28 PM EST
This amount is for plans purchased before 12/31. My renewal date is 4/1 so it will likely be higher by then.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]
Holy mother. by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 3) #5 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 11:58:52 AM EST
Many Protestants toe the line on the whole virgin birth thing. Both Luther and Calvin bought into it. I'm doctrinally obliged to defend the doctrine myself. I think large swaths of Reformists can use and still feel like they're properly blaspheming.

Could you take a poll by ad hoc (4.00 / 2) #7 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:24:28 PM EST
in your Sunday school class? I'll yield to the consensus.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]
At this point . . . by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 2) #9 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:28:24 PM EST
I'm not sure a single kid in my Sunday school believes in anything holy. That's what the religion gets for lettin' me teach.

[ Parent ]
But the theological implications are enormous! by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #11 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:58:29 PM EST
Perhaps some research could be done into what is an equivalent swear for various doctrines: trinitarianism, binitarianism, unitarianism, Arianism, agnosticism, and whatever other isms you can come up with.

Sounds like a good project for school break.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.

[ Parent ]
Trini/bini/uni -tarianism doesn't matter by lm (4.00 / 1) #22 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 07:15:04 AM EST
What matters in this case is Christology. Most Christian trinitarians, binitarians and unitarians accept the dual natures (divine and human) of Christ. For the Arians, Nestorians, and Jehovah's Witnesses, the chance is simply to substitute `Christ' for `God'. For the docetists and Gnostics there really is no equivalent.

The odd ones out are the few Christian groups that accept both (a) the dual natures of Jesus Christ, (b) the doctrine of original sin but deny either (c) the immaculate conception or (d) the perpetual virginity of Mary. If you accept both (a) and (b) then either (c) or (d) will defeat the holiness of the mother of God. In the traditional Reformed world, this will get you Calvinists and the like who deny the immaculate conception. In the modern Reformed world, you've got all sorts of groups that reject the perpetual virginity but I have to concede that I don't know how many of these accept the doctrine of original sin.

But there is an unspoken assumption here, that the use of the phrase as swearing is predicated on the utterer believing in its truth value. Perhaps it would become all the more pertinent as a term of swearing if the person uttering the oath thought it was blasphemy.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
You missed the point. by ad hoc (4.00 / 2) #29 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 08:51:39 AM EST
The virgin birth isn't at question here by lm (4.00 / 1) #17 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 02:22:56 AM EST
But rather the dual natures of Christ. Arians, Nestorians and Jehovah's witnesses would deny that Jesus was God and therefore Mary is only the Mother of Christ (Christotokos) rather than the Mother of God (Theotokos). Docetists and most Gnostics believe that the Christ principle passed through Jesus like water through a pipe and therefore Mary was only the mother of Christ's physical body, not of Christ.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
The nature of Christ isn't at question here. by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 3) #18 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 04:55:17 AM EST
The question was whether or not Catholics were the only ones who could properly use "Holy Mother of God" as an oath. My answer was simply that many flavors of Protestants believe Mary "holy" because of their belief in the doctrine of the virgin birth. Therefore, if one of those Protestants was feeling properly blasphemous, then they could use "Holy Mother of God" just as disrespectfully as any Roman Catholic.

What Jesus was, and whether or not Mary is in fact holy, and what the Nestorians (those Nestorians, always sticking their noses in other people; blasphemy) think about the whole issue wasn't on the table.

Perhaps I'm being presumptuous in assuming ad hoc's motives, but I didn't believe ad hoc was asking or expecting his marginally expert Internet friends to work out the issue of Jesus's relation to the divine, Mary's role in that relationship, and a definitive answer as to what that means for the Roman Catholic and Protestant churches.

Maybe I didn't read the original question - "Holy Mother of God. Is that strictly a Catholic swear?" - closely enough.

Though I think we should also admit the possibility that you're overreacting to what amounts to a joke. I'm not saying it is so. I'm just asking that we keep the option that you're acting like a joyless donkey-head on the table, alongside the very real possibility that "Is that strictly a Catholic swear?" was a sincere request for an analysis of the role of Mary in modern and historical Christian cosmologies.

[ Parent ]
You seem to be under a misapprehension by lm (4.00 / 1) #20 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 05:49:00 AM EST
The virgin birth does not imply motherhood of a deity, only that conception did not occur through the sex act. But consider the births of some of the Greek pantheon. Most occurred through some form of sex act and yet they produced deities. Or consider that many groups (Muslims and Jehovah's witnesses as two examples) accept the virgin birth but do not accept that God has a mother.

In the case of Christianity, whether or not God has a mother is determined by several factors:

  1. Whether or not Mary gave birth to Jesus (denied by the docetists).
  2. Whether or not Jesus was God (denied by the Muslims, Arians, Nestorians and Jehovah's Witnesses)
  3. Whether or not there was union between Jesus' divine and human natures (denied by the Gnostics)
In all three cases above, the deity has no mother. None have anything to do with a virgin birth. In other words, I'm saying that you're misapprehending the reason that mother of God is considered to be holy. It isn't her virginity at the time of conception that is relevant but the fact that she gave birth to God incarnate.

Consequently, any group that holds that Jesus was God and was man (and therefore had a mother) might use the term in question as an interjection. Whether or not such use consists of swearing or praying has been taken up by others in a different thread.

Also note, that the above implies that Christians aren't the only ones who might use such verbiage. While I'm fairly certain that Christianity is the only monotheistic religion that would use it, many polytheistic faiths believe in the mothers of gods.


There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
(Comment Deleted) by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 2) #21 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 06:15:44 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by Christopher Robin was Murdered



[ Parent ]
Something just dawned upon me by lm (4.00 / 2) #32 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 04:13:02 PM EST
I think you think I'm being serious.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
If you wanted to make me cry . . . by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 2) #34 Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 08:45:56 AM EST
Then mission accomplished, Mr. lm. I hope you're proud of yourself.

[ Parent ]
Got it in one. by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #30 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 03:26:48 PM EST
Got it in one by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #31 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 03:32:04 PM EST
(too quick on the Post)

That, and the curious Catholic habit of asking saints (incl. Mary) to intercede on one's behalf as opposed to the protestant practice of pleading straight to The Man.

In light of that, it seems to me that "Jesus Fucking¹ Christ" is far more of a protestant swear than a Catholic one whereas the various Maryisms (whether a swear or not) are singularly Catholic.

¹ or "H.", depending
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.

[ Parent ]
Nothing for nothing . . . by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 2) #35 Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 08:49:12 AM EST
But the hyper-Calvinist John Brown would, according to one of his neighbors, use the declaration "God Bless the Duke of Argyle" as his oath. It's as close as he got to allowing himself a little blasphemy. I have no idea where he picked it up or if there's some joke there I'm missing.

[ Parent ]
Catholic; not swear by johnny (4.00 / 2) #10 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 01:45:58 PM EST
My pious Irish Catholic grandmother said "Holy Mother of God!" as an exclamation and also as a prayer.  My father, not pious, former Catholic, says that and also "Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!" For comic effect he sometimes says "Jaysus Mary and Joseph!" in mock-Irish accent.

I was raised Catholic but am not Catholic.  I say "Jesus fuck!" and "Holy mother of fuck!"  I think those would have to be counted as swears.

I think the country is finally ready for a sane health plan, and will elect Democrats in 2008 to put it in place.

But I'm not going to jinx it by predicting it. Americans are a truly perverse people and may yet fuck it up.
Buy my books, dammit!

In addition by Breaker (4.00 / 2) #12 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 02:42:03 PM EST
to the "jaysus mareee an joseph" there is also "jaysus, mareee joseph an the holy ghost".


[ Parent ]
Jesus fuck by mrgoat (4.00 / 2) #33 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 06:17:11 PM EST
I use "For fuck's sake!" and "Sweet zombie Jesus!". The former because everyone seems to understand just how important fucking is, and the second because Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth did, and if it's good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

But then, I'm not Catholic either.

--top hat--

[ Parent ]
truly the premium? by gzt (4.00 / 2) #13 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 03:21:12 PM EST
or the portion of the premium that you pay? it's probably that your company is deciding to pass more of the cost onto you.

and it's not so much "non-profit" as "non-investor-owned".

Same thing by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #14 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 03:41:16 PM EST
I'm self-employed. Or rather, I have a company for which I am the only employee. So I pay 100% no matter how you look at it.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]
Mr. hoc is self-employed. by toxicfur (4.00 / 2) #15 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 03:53:07 PM EST
So in a sense, yes, his employer is passing more of the cost of his insurance along to himself. Er. Something. Basically, I think the problem is that when people need to purchase individual insurance, especially if they have a health condition, they get screwed. And there's no remedy -- it's pay out, or go bankrupt. Or, in some cases, both.
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If you don't get a Bonnie, my universe will not make sense. --blixco
[ Parent ]
Technically by ad hoc (4.00 / 2) #16 Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 03:58:02 PM EST
the company pays. So in that sense, at least, it's pre-tax money. But it's money that would otherwise be in my paycheck.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]
yes, I'm pretty well aware of this by gzt (4.00 / 1) #19 Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 05:13:43 AM EST
I just did not realize he was self-employed.

[ Parent ]
MA Health Connector by jimgon (4.00 / 2) #36 Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 02:19:26 PM EST
Have you checked out MA Health Connector. You might  be able to pick up a policy there cheaper.  That is if I'm remembering  correctly that you are contractor, and thus not eligible for an employer supplied plan.




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Technician - "We can't even get decent physical health care. Mental health is like witchcraft here."
Those policies are crap by ad hoc (4.00 / 1) #37 Wed Nov 28, 2007 at 03:17:38 PM EST
rules

I'm a contractor of sorts, but I'm employed by my company so I do have an "employer supplied plan". I'm in a group of one.
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The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.

[ Parent ]
Holy Mother of God | 37 comments (37 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback