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Quick thoughts for Saturday Morning

By lm (Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 11:09:31 AM EST) (all tags)

You so know that you don't want to read this

Back in a different era Eisenhower seems to have solved the illegal immigration issue. I find it doubtful his solution would work in the present age. First, it depends on a rule of law approach where enforcement is not stymied by political connections. Second, it takes concerted, competent effort. Third, it does not take a huge outlay of money.

In a book review the CS Monitor makes an observation that we in the west tend to forget, ``in some respects it was the Iranian students of that time, many of whom now run their country, who laid the groundwork for today's much more brutal Islamic militancy.'' The hostage crisis of the seventies at the US embassy in Iran was a student led crisis. The provisional government (arguably) had little to do with it and didn't intervene. Well, those students are now the ones in power.

I'm headed north to move dirt. Once again, I hope that this is my last weekend of moving dirt. My fist full of blisters from last week has healed into an array of calluses.

I started watching the Manchurian Candidate last night. The real one. Regrettably it started at midnight and I fell asleep. I should rent that one at some point so I can watch it at my leisure.

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Quick thoughts for Saturday Morning | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

It'd never happen today by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #1 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 11:41:56 AM EST

Too many contributions from agribusiness interests that profit on cheap labor.

"Illegal immigration" is not solved because those in power have no interest in solving it. What they say is just rhetoric to trick the rubes into voting for them. (Like flag burning, gay marriage, and other issues used to distract.)
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_{ウセーバラケダ}

I should have mentioned that too by lm (4.00 / 1) #2 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 11:51:06 AM EST

But it isn't just agribusiness. Pretty much every large city in the US has a large pool cheap labor thanks to illegal immigrants.

Curious fact that I don't know really applies to anything: the estimated number of illegal workers in the country is almost exactly identical to the number of adult US citizens that don't have jobs and would like jobs.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Now. now, you know the mantra on that by Rogerborg (4.00 / 1) #4 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 12:03:42 PM EST

Mexoricans work jobs that human beings don't want to do.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]

: maybe by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #8 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 04:37:59 PM EST

In the agricultural business, perhaps everyone in California knows that you can find people by the side of the road in the morning, ready to do all sorts of low-level construction jobs.
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_{ウセーバラケダ}
[ Parent ]

We all profit by riceowlguy (2.00 / 0) #5 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 12:59:05 PM EST

I don't know how rich farmers are getting off cheap Mexican labor. My friend Jake works in HR for a fairly large corporate farm in Oregon, and hires mostly Mexican labor. I don't think they're making all that much money up there, because we as consumers have come to demand and expect cheap, high quality food, easy to get and always in season. The cost for food relative to our incomes has gone down dramatically since the 1950's.

[ Parent ]

Fourth, is there an "issue" at all? by Rogerborg (2.00 / 0) #3 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 12:02:07 PM EST

In what way does an influx of cheap disposable labour harm the Cheney administration, and its extended friends and families? If it isn't to their personal detriment, why would they want to stop it?

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.

dude by alprazolam (4.00 / 2) #6 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 02:37:07 PM EST

we've always been at war with meximerica.

[ Parent ]

: And by Rogerborg (2.00 / 0) #7 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 02:58:04 PM EST

We've always been profiting from the war with meximerica.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]

students by martingale (4.00 / 1) #9 Sat Jul 08, 2006 at 10:03:16 PM EST

True. And look at what the 60s baby boomer students who run the west fervently believe in today: preemptive invasions and "moral" regime change.

Oh well, that generation will certainly not go down in history as the most self-effacing.
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$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

Rounding up people like cattle... by ShadowNode (4.00 / 1) #10 Sun Jul 09, 2006 at 10:09:49 AM EST

Might have some unwanted side effects.

If you ignore your neighbour starving, don't complain too loudly if he steals your chickens.

My two cents on the Ike issue. by Christopher Robin was Murdered (2.00 / 0) #11 Sun Jul 09, 2006 at 02:32:47 PM EST

Ike had the will and means to enforce his policy because it was widely believed that Mexican illegals were driving down paychecks across the US.

Right now, the general feeling is that Mexican illegals take job Americans won't take. They are not competition in terms of the job market.

Some regions are hit hard by the illegal issue, but this is mainly over the question of whether or not illegals should receive social services or not.

I think Ike's solution won't work because it was meant to handle what was perceived as competition for jobs. The current issue is about the distribution of social services. Nobody bitches and moans about the cheap labor - they just don't want to have to pay their public services.

America, moral posturing on the part of both parties aside, wants a solution that keeps the cheap labor here but keeps us from having to pay for their public services.

Another large difference by lm (4.00 / 1) #12 Sun Jul 09, 2006 at 03:32:47 PM EST

NAFTA means that a factory owner can open a new factory in Mexico and get the same savings as he or she would by hiring illegal immigrants. Consequently, some of the downward pressure on wages in the fifties will remain regardless of whether or not people are illegally crossing the border. If they don't come to the jobs, the jobs will go to them. Of course this does not apply in the same way to agriculture. One can't move a farm as easily as one can move a factory.

I realize that there is no popular perception that cheap labor from overseas is driving down US wages, but I disagree with that along with the popular notion that there are some jobs that folks already in the US won't do. I think that the situation is that there are quite a few jobs that people in the US won't do for less than a living wage.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

: Jobs by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #13 Sun Jul 09, 2006 at 04:20:13 PM EST

It's not just agriculture. Most of the jobs that have lots of illegals are ones that can't be moved. (I.e. washing dishes, cleaning hotel rooms, doing construction work, landscaping, etc.)
One thing that no one ever talks about is that the other large and poor racial group in the US has a cultural aversion to labor-intensive agriculture for a very, very valid historical reason.
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_{ウセーバラケダ}
[ Parent ]

Quick thoughts for Saturday Morning | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback