By R Mutt (Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 12:11:35 AM EST) MLP (all tags)
Nude urban exploration art [:o MeFi NSFW]

Which is more violent: Bible or Koran? [PU :(]

Photoshop. Movie scenes as medieval woodcuts; scout merit badges [:o BB )]

School criticized for electroshock punishment [:( MeFi]

Transplant Coordinator blog [:(]

Key:
[MeFi] = Stolen from Metafilter
[/.] = Stolen from Slashdot
[M] = Stolen from Memepool
[BX] = Stolen from Blogdex
[X.] = Stolen from Christdot
[)] = Stolen from Monkeyfilter
[B] = Stolen from B3ta
[GG] = Stolen from Green Gabbro
[BFB] = Stolen from Big Fat Blog
[BB] = Stolen from Boing Boing
[PU] = Stolen from PopURLs
[[:)] = Needs sound
[:(] = Serious
[:)] = Amusing
[;)] = Ironic
[:o] = Strange
[*] = Flash
[#] = Free registration required
[NSFW] = Not Safe For Work
[NSFWFUP] = Not Safe For Work For Ultra-Prudish
[(UK)] = UK-centric
[LL] = Late or repeated link

shocking by martingale (4.00 / 2) #1 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 12:27:41 AM EST
It's not that bad, really. Those kids are smart. Creative. Committed. Getting zinged is an act of asymmetrical warfare against the school.
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Those kids have it easy by Rogerborg (4.00 / 1) #2 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 12:55:22 AM EST
Pretty much every Dusty Asspit Cult Manual recommends stoning recalcitrant children to death, although we must of course read them in context, which I understand means redacting the 95% of them that make us uncomfortable about slavishly obeying the remaining 5% of happy clappy peacenik crap.

So I'm sure that if Mohammed Abraham Christ had had access to electric shock belts, he'd have used to them to drive out the demons in a humane and inclusive fashion.  You know, before going on to bathe his feet in the blood of the infidels.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.

Dino! by martingale (2.00 / 0) #3 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 12:58:31 AM EST
Dino de Laurentis! Is that you? Fancy meeting you here!
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$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
[ Parent ]
The comparisson betwen the Quran and the Bible by lm (4.00 / 3) #4 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 02:01:59 AM EST
A good argument could be made that either book is the most violent and cruel book ever written.''

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
Or too much (of the Bible) by DesiredUsername (4.00 / 1) #8 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 02:48:52 AM EST
The set of books that feature children getting mauled by bears or nearly stabbed by their parents and genocide is advocated as holy is already pretty small, but the subset wherein the perpetrators are the good guys and praised, non-ironically, by the author is almost empty.

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[ Parent ]
You've never read Hesiod by lm (2.00 / 0) #10 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:29:44 AM EST
How about the hero of a tale cutting off someone's genitals and swalling them whole?

Or, apparently, the Song of Roland.

Or oodles of other works that are, by far, contain more violence that either the Bible or the Quran. I think you greatly underestimate the quantity of literature that contains graphic, wanton and cruel violence.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
What's the total Violence Factor? by DesiredUsername (2.00 / 0) #11 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:39:10 AM EST
number * intensity?

In any case, I'd say that a book that features castration is less violent than one in which thousands of innocent people are slaughtered because an Invisible Sky Giant told someone they now owned a piece of land.

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[ Parent ]
Maybe, maybe not. by komet (2.00 / 0) #12 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:53:11 AM EST
But there can be no doubt that the Bible and the Quran have each caused more violence than any other book.

Oh wait. My troll pass expired in 2003? Never mind then.

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<ni> komet: You are functionally illiterate as regards trashy erotica.

[ Parent ]
See the Internet Registrar by DesiredUsername (4.00 / 1) #13 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:56:26 AM EST
Better hurry, it's going to get busy as schools let out for summer.

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[ Parent ]
Dunno by jump the ladder (4.00 / 1) #14 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:05:30 AM EST
Das Kapital has caused hundred of millions on deaths in the 20th Century.

[ Parent ]
nah by martingale (4.00 / 1) #15 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:14:31 AM EST
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the same can be said for the bible. by garlic (2.00 / 0) #27 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:15:49 AM EST
and probably the koran.

[ Parent ]
Lots of people by jump the ladder (2.00 / 0) #29 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:20:32 AM EST
Read the Koran but as the officially approved version has to be in clasical Arabic, not many actually understand it.

[ Parent ]
nonsense by martingale (2.00 / 0) #31 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:02:54 PM EST
There are no regular sunday preachings of Das Kapital (*), whereas reading or being read to from the bible at least once a week if not more has existed for millenia in the west. There's really no comparison.

(*) DK is really the wrong book to be making into some kind of cult manifesto. The correct book would be Marx+Engels' The Communist Manifesto, which is much shorter and much less scholarly.
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[ Parent ]
not quite by garlic (2.00 / 0) #33 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:17:18 PM EST
but close enough to blame everything on religion.

[ Parent ]
if you want to play the blame game by martingale (2.00 / 0) #34 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:29:56 PM EST
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Lenin and Stalin on trial before the ISG: by MillMan (4.00 / 1) #19 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:08:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno by lm (4.00 / 1) #21 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:17:21 AM EST
It seems to me that advances in modern science leading to machine guns, bombs of unusually large sizes, chemical weapons and the like has caused the deaths of far more people than either the Bible or the Quran.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
ridiculous by martingale (2.00 / 0) #32 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:07:21 PM EST
Tools are the means, while religion is a cause.
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Question begger by lm (2.00 / 0) #35 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:14:45 PM EST
You're assuming that religion isn't a tool cf. Plato and Marsilius of Padua.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
like a gun or an explosive? by martingale (2.00 / 0) #36 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 07:37:09 PM EST
You have a warped sense of what a tool is, don't you? Show me how "religion as a tool" directly interacts with physical reality.
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So you're saying that mathematics isn't a tool? by lm (2.00 / 0) #37 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:21:31 AM EST
Marsilius of Padua argued that the religion only serves to ensure the goodness of human acts both individual and civil on which depend almost completely the quite or tranquillity of communities and finally the sufficient live in the present world.'' He held that philosophers made up religions as a method to control the masses in the same way that Plato suggested that the Noble Lie be used. Marsilius's idea is contingent on the notion that most people simply can't understand being good for goodness' sake alone and need the promises and threats of the afterlife to keep them in line.

Of course he did make an exception for Christianity which he likened to a cancer. Christianity, alone of the religions said he, was started by people who actually think it true.

And if you look at the vast majority of religions, I think it clear that Marsilius may have a point. Most religions certainly seem designed to keep their inventors in control which, at least in the minds of the inventors, seems to be a good way to keep the peace.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
yes, it's not by martingale (2.00 / 0) #38 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 02:51:20 AM EST
Again, you're playing on the metaphoric. Mathematics is a tool as much as religion, or law. We can talk of "mathematical toolbox" if you like, but it remains metaphoric. Suppose you use a mathematical result as a "tool" to solve a mathematical problem, then you still have a nonphysical end-result: an idea, a truth. The biggest effect it might have is that it makes you feel good if you witness it. Still, it is rather different to an airplane, or a tank, both of which canalso make you feel good (or not) upon witnessing one.

I have no quarrel with Marsilius on his conception of religion, but I note that this viewpoint still doesn't make religion a tool. The greatest lie still requires consent to be effective, while a tool doesn't. A drill doesn't need consent to bore a hole in a wall. An idea can be ignored by willpower.

You simply can't compare the ideas in a book with war machines.
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$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

[ Parent ]
You're being a sophist by lm (2.00 / 0) #39 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 03:22:01 AM EST
A tool is an invention that helps to solve a problem. Sometimes that problem is physical. Sometimes that problem is social. Sometimes that problem is abstract. In any case, a tool is an invention that multiplies the natural power of the individual making use of it.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
even if you take that point of view by martingale (2.00 / 0) #40 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 03:47:04 AM EST
You still haven't captured Marsilius' conception of religion as a tool.

What does it mean for a priest to multiply his powers? The priest acts on people, his business is persuasion. Does religion multiply his persuasiveness? If he's buddhist, he persuades twice as well as if he's atheist? If he's protestant, he persuades four times as well as if he's voodoo?

Conversely, if the target is muslim, let's consider two priests: one tries to convince without invoking religion, and one tries to convince using christianity. Does christianity as a tool truly multiply powers of persuasion against the target individual?

I just don't see that the tool metaphor fits on closer inspection.
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[ Parent ]
A thought experiment by lm (2.00 / 0) #41 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 03:52:16 AM EST
Imagine two rulers. One promulgates a religion that tells people that they will burn in hell if they don't obey the laws. The other does not. Some would argue that the former will have a more law abiding people.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
depends by martingale (2.00 / 0) #42 Tue Jun 20, 2006 at 03:44:43 PM EST
I believe that was tried in the 16th century by Mary Tudor. And by all accounts, people weren't too happy to follow her lead.
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Oops by lm (2.00 / 0) #23 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:46:53 AM EST
I put my comment to this post in the wrong place.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Meh by DesiredUsername (2.00 / 0) #24 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:59:42 AM EST
Counting both number of incidents and severity of each doesn't seem any more like moving the goalposts than claiming an orally-transmitted poem is a book.

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claiming an orally-transmitted poem is a book? by lm (2.00 / 0) #25 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:08:23 AM EST
I hope you were being intentionally ironic. The vast majority of the Bible was passed down orally through generations, just like Hesiod, before being written down.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
QED (nt) by DesiredUsername (2.00 / 0) #26 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:13:01 AM EST

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Oh, right by lm (4.00 / 1) #22 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:20:48 AM EST
I forgot the part about inumerable number of children in the Bible getting mauled by bears or nearly stabbed by their parents. You're shifting the goal posts.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]
Judging the Bible vs Quran by DesiredUsername (4.00 / 2) #5 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 02:11:06 AM EST
on the basis of violence is like judging between the 80s cartoon shows My Pretty Pony and Strawberry Shortcake on the basis of their editing. I'm sure it's bad, but the point is they are both so near the bottom of the barrel in every way it's hardly worth fighting about.

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Those pictures.... by blixco (4.00 / 1) #6 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 02:43:27 AM EST
...the naked urban exploration ones?  Amazing.  Creepy and vulnerable.  Very cool stuff.
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Taken out of context I must seem so strange - Ani DiFranco
bu $400 a pop? by martingale (2.00 / 0) #7 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 02:47:56 AM EST Seems excessive. --$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$[ Parent ] No, the price is the whole point. by motty (4.00 / 1) #16 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:35:58 AM EST They're totally heartless, totally mercenary, totally artless (in any sense you care to name), very slick and contain absolutely no meaning whatsoever other than that they probably will sell for$400 a pop (or more) and make a reasonably well-selling coffee table book too.

Each one I looked at (before I got totally sick of them) was exactly the same - a carefully crafted by-the-book commercial art style photo with a completely gratuitous totally out of place and thoroughly unnecessary naked lady in it somewhere. Each photo would actually be improved by removing the woman; however, the idea is to make something that looks 'arty' without actually having to think or create or do anything that actually takes some kind of work - a particular idea that can be repeated ad infinitum as there is no shortage of arty urban backdrops and naked ladies prepared to pose. Is she vulnerable? Not to my eyes. Not when posed so artificially. The vulnerable one is the guy putting his hand in his pocket and thinking about shelling out $400 for a cynical piece of shit designed to fleece him. This is not art, this is artistic technique abused in order to insult the eye of the beholder over and over and over again, prostituting itself in pseudo-protest and no doubt making the creator a great wad of cash in the process. I amd itn ecaptiaghle of drinking sthis d dar - Dr T [ Parent ] sounds like by martingale (4.00 / 1) #18 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:54:17 AM EST you could do a competing set yourself, maybe for$396? Or make it $405 with a naked guy, and go for the gay market :) --$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s\$
[ Parent ]
Yes. by ObviousTroll (4.00 / 1) #20 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 05:13:09 AM EST
One or two of those pictures were actually made worthwhile by the incongruity of having a naked chick in them - the whole soft-curves versus rusted steel thing - but except for those extreme few I agree that the pictures had nothing worthwhile about them.

The fact that the model seemed determined to be photographed nude without letting even a hint of her naughty bits show up probably has a lot to do with it.

What's the point of stripping down if you're going to spend the entire shoot curled up into a ball?

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Faith, and the possibility of weaponized kissing?

[ Parent ]
at work so haven't seen the pictures. by garlic (2.00 / 0) #28 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:20:12 AM EST
when has that stopped anyone before?

vulnerable would probalby be easier to see in beat up, dirty clothes instead of naked. Naked (or nude, whatever) certainly sounds like a pose instead of a real situation.

[ Parent ]
Well, vulnerable in the sense of.. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #30 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 06:22:23 AM EST
"Holy shit. Hasn't that girl heard of tetanus?"

The hell with naked, I wouldn't have gone into some of those places without heavy boots and jeans.

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Faith, and the possibility of weaponized kissing?

[ Parent ]
Electroshock? What the hell by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #9 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 03:19:07 AM EST
happened to a good old wooden paddle like in the old days! We even saw them used for head shots on occasion. Broken skin? Blood and brusing? Feh. Deal with it you wimps! Here's a pass to the nurses office...

Naked Art by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #17 Mon Jun 19, 2006 at 04:46:46 AM EST
Those pictures were quite interesting, but the poses sure got old - same basic poses (either rear view, or folded up) over and over. It kind of ruined the effect of the pix.

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Faith, and the possibility of weaponized kissing?