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Diary
By Herring (Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 08:30:31 AM EST) (all tags)
Yeah, I have the machine (in fact I'm using it right now). I am having trouble with Kubuntu though. I expected trouble with drivers and whatnot, but not this ....


OK, so starting at the weekend, I torrented down the DVD image being as I strongly expected trouble with connecting to teh intarweb (see diaries passim re. Linksys WMP54G). First attempt with Nero (to be fair, I was rushing) and I burned a disk with a fucking great .ISO file on it. Funily enough, didn't boot.

Burned a disk properly. Boots. Great. Select country, keyboard (don't start me on XP Pro 64 and keyboards - yes, all my fucking users are in the same country and so are all of my programs), all that shit, CD-ROM on this thing runs like shit off a shiny shovel. Get to 12% on the first lot of stuff. "Error Reading CD-ROM. Retry Y/N". Shit. Notice a load of stuff also running under other people's accounts on the (old) PC. Re-boot and burn again. Same thing, at the same point in the install. Fuck. OK, let's turn the write speed down. Same thing, same point. OK, let's let Nero test fuck out of the thing and choose its own write speed. Same thing, same point in the install.

At this point, I am unhappy.

I download the install CD ISO. THis is going to take hours so I leave it overnight. Came home today, burned the CD ISO (not the DVD) and the install fails at exactly the same point. Arses.

Checking the FAQ/known problems, there is something about the "OEM Install". I don't know if that's what I'm using.

Anyhow, I have a plentiful supply of coasters.

"It is extremly easy to install Kubuntu 5.10. Make sure your computer can boot from a CD-ROM, insert the CD-ROM and then follow the screens."

Anyhow, Win XP 64 does install (5GB partition) and runs with 64 bitness. It's pretty dull though. It does at least recognize my wireless card - well it doesn't but the driver works anyway.

The future of this project at LCC looks less certain by the day. Anybody with a brain knows we aint delivering on the 31st March. This, of course, cannot be officially admitted. Also, it cannot be officially blamed on the people making the strategic decisions, but rather on the staff who joined this December after the project had already been going 18 months.

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Grrr. | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Kernel params? by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #1 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:17:14 AM EST
Not that you need them, but many times these kinds of lunix glitches are down to drivers being loaded automatically by the boot disk which shouldn't be, or vice versa. You may well be loading a non-64-bit-aware kernel at boot, which could cause all kinds of merry hell or nothing at all, depending on what's going on. At the beginning of the install there should be a paused screen somewhere with extra `press ESC-CTRL-HOME-INS-END-DEL-T for more options', or some such bull.
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Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
There are some options by Herring (4.00 / 1) #2 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:25:09 AM EST
I tried one related to Via MBs. Guess I'm going to have to try a few more. Googling no help as yet. Nor is playing with the BIOS. Might lob a mail at the people who sold me the machine in case they've seen similar.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
OK, Feel free to smear snot all over my username by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #6 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:45:05 AM EST
for even asking this, but: Which DVD/CD did you download? You want AMD64 and not x86 (as stupid as that might seem).


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Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
[ Parent ]
Fair question by Herring (2.00 / 0) #8 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:56:05 AM EST
The one where if you try to boot the old computer off it, it says "this is not 64bit AMD. Fuck off".

And yes, I did try that without thinking.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky

[ Parent ]
Oh Shit! by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #13 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:13:45 AM EST

I think I know what your problem might be.

I think it's with the PIIX module. I had almost exactly what you're describing happen with Debian about three months ago. I even filed an installation report but I'm damned if I can find it now.

Took a while to put two and two together because Kubuntu->Ubuntu->Debian etc.

The way to fix it was that, under the install process, you had to ask for advanced options, click forward to go the module-loading screen, then you had to unload PIIX, then click 'Start Over', which wouldn't reboot the computer but would restart the installer. Then it worked. I don't know if Ubuntu has anything similar.

OT postscript: The install lasted two days until I wiped the whole fucking thing and installed FreeBSD. In fairness, Debian's great, but I was doing some highly idiosyncratic software RAID thing which was misbehaving and FreeBSD is awesomely easy for complex software RAID configs.


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Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
[ Parent ]
I'll give it a try by Herring (2.00 / 0) #14 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:22:40 AM EST
PIIX you say ...

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
modules by martingale (4.00 / 1) #19 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 05:06:59 PM EST
are a tricky lot. I recently installed ubuntu on my brother's PC, and it would hang after the start of the installation, not being able to read the CDROM. Even though it actually booted off the CDROM and did 30 seconds worth of actual loading and installation.

I solved it by using a cheat code (note link is for Knoppix, but also works in ubuntu). The problem was ATAPI related, so instead of pressing enter at the boot screen, you need to type something like

install: linux26 atapicd noscsi

In any case, you should try at least the safe mode installer, because that loads practically no modules so you'll know if it's a module problem.

install: failsafe
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$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

[ Parent ]
Ta. by Herring (2.00 / 0) #23 Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 09:18:00 AM EST
It sounds like very much the same problem. I have buggered about with various switches, but not all of them yet.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
funny thing is by martingale (2.00 / 0) #24 Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 02:19:40 PM EST
There's a lot of distros based on debian/ubuntu, so any problem that affects the parent distro will occur in all the others :(.
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$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
[ Parent ]
Addenda by yicky yacky (2.00 / 0) #15 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:25:24 AM EST

The broad issues are described here ('First Problem') and here.


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Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
[ Parent ]
FreeBSD and RAID by creo (2.00 / 0) #20 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 08:18:51 PM EST
It is?

I must be retarded then because I find vinum a complete pain in the ass - unless there is a different way now. Also how do you do LVM with FreeBSD? If I knew how to do raid5 and LVM, I would have gone FBSD for sure (I had 3 disks I was raid5ing - so it was pretty basic). I tried to work out vinum for FBSD, but I was in a hurry and the point and click thing made the choice easy. I have used vinum for raid - it was just the LVM side that I could not work out - or even work out if it did it.

Instead I went Kubuntu and had no issues at all other than that fricking retarded timing problem they fixed in 2.6.14. That was a multiple day time sink - that was a Loonix problem, not Kubuntu specific.

I still would have preferred FBSD at the time though - it's probably too late to migrate all the stuff now.

Do you know how to do LVM on FBSD - could you point me to some docs?

Cheers
Creo.

"I shall do what I believe to be right and honourable" - Guderian

[ Parent ]
*Software* RAID by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #21 Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 02:39:49 AM EST

For RAID 5, I dunno, I've never tried.

For RAIDs 0, 1 and 3, all the cool kids are using the geometry mirror (gmirror) tools these days (onlamp). They're still regarded as a bit bleeding-edge, but they've never failed me, and I wanted them for 'non-mission-critical' purposes. I was also doing very silly shit, like mirroring an entire disk to equivalently-sized partitions on two other drives. It was the most hassle-free way of doing it and it did it (and is still doing it) marvellously.


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Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
[ Parent ]
Stuff by Herring (4.00 / 1) #10 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:02:51 AM EST
I have been through a good range of boot params now. I have also mailed the people who sold me the PC. I didn't mention (although maybe I should) that I haven't done their eBay feedback yet ...

Next steps:

  1. Wait for new torrent of ISO to finish. Binary file compare with last attempt.
  2. Burn the ISO on this actual machine (seems silly, but you never know).
  3. Play with random BIOS settings until the whole thing wont start and I have to short the jumper and start again
  4. Drink beer


christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
Linux - IT JUST WORKS! by Awakened Dreamer (4.00 / 1) #3 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:25:56 AM EST

Chripes I hate computers.

Nothing positive to add, as I've not had the pleasure of attempting a 64 bit install yet. Well, at least not on anything other than the old Alpha machines.

And that was a night of pure hell, let me tell you.

heh by clover kicker (2.00 / 0) #4 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:32:05 AM EST
The state of the art in Linux installers has slightly improved since the Alpha days.

[ Parent ]
Sort of. by Awakened Dreamer (2.00 / 0) #5 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:43:07 AM EST

Now they go graphical.

Optionally, read this comment as, "Well, apparently not."

[ Parent ]
64 bit XP: gives you Very Large Memory, by blixco (2.00 / 0) #7 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:49:03 AM EST
and nothing else.

Except heartbreak if you happen to have a Canon IR series network printer.
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I am ten ninjas. Ten ninjas with root access. - mrgoat

It does give you by Herring (4.00 / 1) #9 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:59:41 AM EST
the warm feeling that you're using the whole register.

It certainly isn't blindingly fast. By the clock speed, FSB speed etc. then this beastie should be twice as fast at everything as the old machine. Running XP 64, you get the feeling that if it is twice as fast, as per usual an MS OS "upgrade" has obliterated any advantage.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky

[ Parent ]
It's supposedly by blixco (2.00 / 0) #11 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:10:37 AM EST
less efficient at lower register ordering.  They are counting on most x86_64 machines being 1) faster procs and 2) SATA or better drives.

We have a whole slew of new machines with x64 edition, and they are all causing me HUGE grief.  Imagine being a developer and migrating from 32 bit XP to 64 bit without anyone telling you.

On the plus side, Matlab is now goddamn fast on a 4GB system.
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I am ten ninjas. Ten ninjas with root access. - mrgoat

[ Parent ]
ZOMFG!!! by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #12 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 10:12:51 AM EST
What the FUCK are you doing POSTING on a Wednesday?!?

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

Other distro? by thunderbee (2.00 / 0) #16 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 12:58:55 PM EST
Did you try another distro? Like Ubuntu? Or debian? Even if you don't want to run it, you'll see how the install goes. For all I know, try a live-CD. Even try a regular 32 bits distro.
You want to know what's failing.

Note that if you try the semi-official port of sarge-AMD64, it barfs on the keyboard selection in expert mode, but if you just skip it, you can reconfigure the keyboard during the second stage of the install.

Good luck.
Oh. Start using CD-RW ;-p

Indeed that's another option by Herring (2.00 / 0) #17 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 01:17:00 PM EST
It's just time to download.

christ, we're all old now - StackyMcRacky
[ Parent ]
Download time by thunderbee (2.00 / 0) #18 Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 02:50:58 PM EST
Maybe get a small net-install debian CD, or a small, fits-on-a-credit-card-CD rescue image? Although I don't think you'll find a native-64 bits rescue CD.

Sorry about the download time, living on an ADSL2+ line make you forget about that kind of concern. I'll regret that when I move.

I know how you feel when every try takes a large amount of time and fails.

Cheers. You'll prevail eventually ;)

[ Parent ]
Burning isos by Cloaked User (2.00 / 0) #22 Thu Feb 09, 2006 at 03:04:58 AM EST
I've done that a few times in the past too, back when I first started using CD burners. Man did I feel silly (especially as it was at work).


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This is not a psychotic episode. It is a cleansing moment of clarity.
Grrr. | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback