Print Story Dear filthy, stinking GNU hippies,
Diary
By coryking (Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 04:36:14 PM EST) tags, the final, frontier (all tags)
If you ever tell me "oh yeah Cory, use PNG, it is just as good as GIF" I'll tell you to take a flying leap of your local cliff.

also. delete. delete. i eat meat.



Why?  One of the websites got done up with purdy colors. As it turns out, IE has really shitty PNG support.  It is like it doesn't obey the color pallete embedded in the PNG at all and decides to do its own thang.  What a bunch of assholes!  Since Firefox hasn't taken over quite yet (a shame), I had to replace the top gradient with a GIF instead of a PNG.

The t-shirts aren't quite in yet; it has been almost two weeks since I placed the order.  The screenprinters are a bit booked it would seem.  I've been given good word that these guys are the best so I figure the delay will be worth it.  I'm thinking maybe I could do printing on camera bags and other such things.  I'd really dig a beer glass too....

I decided I had enough, and flexed my 31337 0wn3r powers and put the boot to AOLSPEAK.  U p0st A0L talk on photographica and i will boot u.  AOL Speak is like a cancer.  Once it gets hold it can take over a forum and rot the minds of posters everywhere.

In other news, I bought a new bottle of whiskey and decided to crack the bottle open a bit early.  Verdict:  I like it.

< Note to self: Do not piss off the boss | BBC White season: 'Rivers of Blood' >
Dear filthy, stinking GNU hippies, | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
WIPO: ASCII by DesiredUsername (2.00 / 0) #1 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 04:50:18 PM EST
Also, ObThatsAComplaintAboutIENotPNG

---
Now accepting suggestions for a new sigline
I ran out of room by coryking (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 04:52:41 PM EST
or I would have added that.

Also, ObItDoesntMatterCauseItIsAnIEWorldUnfortunatly  ;-)


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
I saw this and thought of you: by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #24 Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 02:33:31 AM EST
Does this solve your problem? It's a way of getting IE to render PNGs properly.

[ Parent ]
oh my! by coryking (2.00 / 0) #25 Thu Feb 16, 2006 at 06:21:27 AM EST
That is a hack of hacks!

I'll give that a whirl!!!!


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
(R + D)OFL YHBT (nt) by tps12 (2.00 / 0) #5 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 06:19:09 PM EST


[ Parent ]
I know what you mean. by NoMoreNicksLeft (4.00 / 2) #3 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 05:36:47 PM EST
I wanted to use PNG too, but when I tried to view it in lynx, it didn't even show. PNG sucks. So, I went ahead and replaced the image with a Powerpoint file, which should be fine for everyone.
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
wow by coryking (2.00 / 0) #4 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 05:45:54 PM EST
you are right.  lynx has pretty good powerpoint support since microsoft started to use XML.


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
Sir: by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #6 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 06:24:41 PM EST
Are you suggesting that some obtuse browser that no one even considers to be modern anymore just to confirm your own pre-concieved notions about technology is somehow remiss in the world of website development?

Oh, am I bad. Technically IE is an operating system component. Nevermind.
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

[ Parent ]
I just use PDFs. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 06:39:41 PM EST
That way I'm sure the user gets exactly the experience they deserve.


[ Parent ]
Actually... by Man (2.00 / 0) #8 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 07:05:34 PM EST
Only PNG and GIF do transparency and GIF's transparency is shitty. If only IE would fucking support PNG.

oh man by coryking (2.00 / 0) #9 Fri Feb 10, 2006 at 09:42:27 PM EST
if IE could do PNG's alpha transparency stuff I'd be in heaven.  Dunno what I'd do with it, but I'd be in heaven anyway.

Actually, I was looking around photoshop and it doesn't look like it handles the alpha transparency stuff either :-(


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
If only... by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #10 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 01:46:15 AM EST
IE could do proper DOM.
IE could do proper application/xhtml+xml.
IE could do SVG (even tiny!)
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
shit by coryking (2.00 / 0) #11 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 07:42:39 AM EST
I'll settle for a better CSS implementation.


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
Haha, dream on. by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #12 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 07:54:54 AM EST
I tried to try to the IE7 beta at work. XP Pro, SP2, administrator rights.

Fails to install with "not enough permissions" or some crap. So, I gave up on it completely. My website will try to work with Konq and Safari, and it already works in Firefox 1.5 and Opera 9. IE6 asks you if you want to save or run index.php though, so screw that...
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

[ Parent ]
see by coryking (2.00 / 0) #13 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 08:33:31 AM EST
you have the luxury.  I _have_ to work on IE or else nobody would visit my website.

Pity me?


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
I don't really have such a luxury. by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #14 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 08:51:47 AM EST
I want to turn this into a small commercial website. I'm in effect taking at most, 10% of the money that I otherwise would (though, I am trying to attract a smarter crowd, to an extent).

If I go with IE, it means using java, or maybe flash for stuff that I'd otherwise get away with SVG/javascript for. Flash at least, means spending a few hundred on developer tools for, and then reinstalling windows which I haven't used in years. So rule that out right now.

Java, I have no desire to really learn it. That alone, and the time it would take make it impractical.

Maybe a few IE users will be so wowed by the content that friends will show them, that they'll decide to take 5 minutes to install something that won't cram their machines full of spyware as they browse. Dunno.
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

[ Parent ]
hmmm.... by coryking (2.00 / 0) #15 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 09:49:45 AM EST
I'm trying to think of some advice for you.  I looked at the website linked on your profile.  Interesting idea :-)

Is this gonna be a desktop app?

Whatever the case is, the secret is to stop thinking about this like a nerd, and start thinking like a business dude.  If 90% of your market is using IE then you are an fool to hold to nerdy ideals.  Nerdy ideals get you nowhere.  If PNG is busted on 90% of all browsers you go with GIF regardless of what ESR, RMS or slashdot says (in fact, stop reading slashdot or other cubicle nerd sites, they rot your brain)  Besides, firefox isn't perfect (it leaks memory like sieve) and I know many very smart people still using IE.

If it is gonna on the internet, having anything install will make your business fail.  It needs to be quick and snappy.  Use AJAX'y things if you need.  Javascript really isn't that bad.  In fact, it's a fairly good language that has a pretty bad rap.  I agree if we are talking about Java proper.  I have no interest in learning that either!

Also, two resources to inspire and encourage you:

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/?biz
MicroISV the book.

Welcome to the club, and good luck.


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
Distributed web app. by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #16 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:02:25 AM EST
One person doing data entry could never keep up, but have a few thousand do it in exchange for free searching, and we can cruise through alot of pictures.

Considering allowing people to download the database date in addition to the photos in RDF format, haven't decided. Don't like the idea of making a desktop version (though I did a few years back), afraid someone would rip off the idea.

IE just doesn't give me alot to work with. There are several applets that will be fairly tricky:

A "posable" human face.
A posable stick figure, fully rotatable/movable in 3d.
A 3d painter type applet, where it will amount to letting people "paint" crude texture maps onto a human 3d mesh.
And even a few (NSFW, hardcore images)interactive diagrams.

Some of the stuff just threatens to be difficult to implement, period, let alone in some way that IE would approve of. Flash is not an option for me, nor is java. And it's not a Firefox-only thing either, all of the other major browsers have at least some support for this...
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

[ Parent ]
In one sentance by coryking (2.00 / 0) #17 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:07:41 AM EST
RDF, Distributed databases, etc donn't mean anything to me.  What pain of mine are you trying to solve?


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
Your pain of trying to find just the exact... by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #19 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:19:11 AM EST
Kinds of pictures you are looking for. Haha. Yeh, I know, it's lame. But it's mostly a dumb idea of mine that I don't think will make any money.
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.
[ Parent ]
Not lame at all by coryking (2.00 / 0) #20 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:32:46 AM EST
The next question is, will the people who have this pain be willing to pay to ease the pain?  I'd say, in your industry, shit yes.  Through advertising, paid inclusions, subscriptions, etc you could probably be very successful.  In talking with a friend in your industry, I'll tell you the biggest issues you'll have will be fraud prevention.  Expect to pay a fortune in merchant fees.

Photographica's pain is a combination of "There isn't any good photography communities" and "I want to be like all the good photographers on this site".  Do they pay?  So far it seems that way; people plunk down $50 bucks a year on a subscription that is barely mentiond anywhere on the website and barely offers any tangable benifit, and they do it the same day they register an account.  With some better marketing I think the answer is hell yes people will pay.

So my advice to you is stop thinking about distributed blahblah, rdf blah blah, linux blah blah, firefox blah blah.  People dont give a flying shit about that stuff.  Start thinking about the pain people feel, and what you can do to ease the pain.  The less technical you can talk about your product, the more marketable and real will become.  People dont by stuff because it is uses AJAX or uses RDF or is licensed with the Creative Commons.  People by stuff because it relives a pain they have.  It helps to immerse yourself in business books and in business communites like the one I linked above.  I hate to say it, but most of these slashdot derivitive sites will tell you stuff that just bloat the hell out of your product (look at scoop. rusty et al cave into every %$&* request so the software has about one million options useful to only the person who requested it)

It seems to me you have to think about the pain and think about how you can realistically solve that pain.  From your descriptions and screenshots, it sounds like you might be trying for too much in a 1.0 release.

Again, good luck.  Dont think your idea is lame.  People become millionares with lame ideas.  The secret isn't the idea, but the implementation of that idea.  The implementation is where the money is found.


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
also by coryking (2.00 / 0) #18 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:08:59 AM EST
dont worry about people ripping you off.  Think of it is a testimate to your idea.


-------------
Dog food. Snack for some. Feast for others.

[ Parent ]
Save/run index.php - wrong MIME type? by nstenz (2.00 / 0) #21 Sat Feb 11, 2006 at 10:08:26 PM EST
Are you sure your web server is sending index.php as type text/html? If not, .php isn't going to be a recognized extension in Windows, and IE is going to think it's some weird file it doesn't know how to view.

[ Parent ]
Actually. by NoMoreNicksLeft (2.00 / 0) #22 Sun Feb 12, 2006 at 03:00:35 AM EST
I'm using header() from within the php code to send it. But I'm sending it as application/xhtml+xml because of all the inline SVG, or because it's the proper type for XHTML. IE won't do it, and won't ever do it for a long time, according to Microsoft themselves. They refuse to give up their stranglehold accorded them by supporting non-standard bullshit.

I could have it send out alternate mimetypes whenever it sees an IE agent string, but what would be the point? My javascript still won't work, and I'm too busy prototyping, to write x3 the code just for all the IE exceptions. And the nasty fugly shit you have to do just to get SVG to work with the adobe plugin...
--
Do not look directly into laser with remaining good eye.

[ Parent ]
HTML Considered Harmful? by nstenz (2.00 / 0) #23 Mon Feb 13, 2006 at 07:47:45 PM EST
I'm guessing you've read it, but here's the link in case anybody hasn't:

XHTML Considered Harmful

[ Parent ]
Dear filthy, stinking GNU hippies, | 25 comments (25 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback