Print Story Cause and effect, for beginners.
Diary
By Idempotent (Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:45:05 AM EST) (all tags)
Read this and cry gently.


Did it not occur to any of the teachers, appalled parents or journalists that if a parent names their child "Bobbi-Jo", that parent may not be one of the most intelligent or thoughtful people ever to grace the earth? And that parenting might be a bit too difficult for them?

In which cause, you would expect children with stupid names to be troublesome. Some people should not be allowed to breed, and that includes ignorant journalists.

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Cause and effect, for beginners. | 64 comments (64 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
IAWTP by Alice Pulley (4.00 / 1) #1 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:48:01 AM EST


--

'But they're adults and perfectly capable of working it out themselves. And if not, well, fuck em.' - Nebbish '06.

Interesting. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:54:15 AM EST
Either you are posting a worthless comment with no content, or you are making a rather subtle joke. Which is it?

[ Parent ]
Here's an easy baby-naming rule by DesiredUsername (4.00 / 3) #3 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:55:48 AM EST
Don't name your baby anything you hear screamed by hair-rollered women or wifebeatered men in the aisles of WalMart.

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Now accepting suggestions for a new sigline
Yeah, maybe. by Idempotent (4.00 / 1) #4 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:58:44 AM EST
But if you are thoughtful enough to consider doing that, you already have shown a bit of intelligence.

There really are too many stupid people in the world. And intelligent people have better things to do than rear children.

[ Parent ]
By your own opening premise by notafurry (2.00 / 0) #32 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:39:48 AM EST
Clearly intelligent people should not consider that they have better things to do than raise children, no?

[ Parent ]
I have a policy on this one. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #33 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:41:03 AM EST
I only judge stupid people.

[ Parent ]
I've told this story before by gazbo (4.00 / 4) #24 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:03:01 AM EST
A friend of mine was in a supermarket (well, Woolworths to be exact) when some little kid barged past him.  In a voice so shrilly common I'm almost tempted to go home and make an ahhhdio blog to continue this story, he heard the mother scream:

Oi!  Destiny!  Get back 'ere!

No, he didn't manage to keep a straight face.


I recommend always assuming 7th normal form where items in a text column are not allowed to rhyme.

[ Parent ]
At least it wasn't named Opportunity. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #26 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:10:49 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Feh. There is nothing here. by greyrat (4.00 / 2) #5 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:09:46 AM EST
We are all judgement machines. We all do it all the time. Get past it. Everyone does it. Everyone has always done it. It's part of human nature.

I think you have missed the point of my diary. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:24:03 AM EST
I was doing some serious judging.

[ Parent ]
Yes. And I saying that's OK. In fact, by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:53:50 AM EST
it's unavoidable.

[ Parent ]
OK. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #23 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:57:37 AM EST
But I was judging them for being stupid while doing their judging. Not because they were judging in the first place.

[ Parent ]
it has been shown by Dr H0ffm4n (4.00 / 2) #13 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:47:44 AM EST
A teacher's prejudice attitude to a child can directly affect that child's performance and behaviour whether the teacher believes they act on any prejudices or not. [1966, Rosenthal & Jacobson]

[ Parent ]
How insightful. by Idempotent (3.50 / 2) #17 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:50:55 AM EST
How did the study avoid being biased by parenting habits?

[ Parent ]
Why not read it and find out? by gazbo (3.00 / 1) #25 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:08:14 AM EST
I hear tell that citing references for one's assertions goes some way to absolving the the person from having to field questions about the methodologies used in that paper.

I recommend always assuming 7th normal form where items in a text column are not allowed to rhyme.

[ Parent ]
What kind of site do you think this? by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #34 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:42:10 AM EST
Shit, I'm turning into Rogerborg.

[ Parent ]
carefully by Dr H0ffm4n (4.00 / 2) #29 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:25:03 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Sounds good! by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #36 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:46:54 AM EST
Look, I've been spending today writing a Windows device driver. You can't expect me to read random scientific studies too, can you?

[ Parent ]
It turns out that's not the case by Rogerborg (4.00 / 1) #30 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:31:17 AM EST
As anyone who's given the briefest of study to Rogerborg & de Sade 1765 would know.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]
My mom teaches in the inner city by thenick (4.00 / 2) #6 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:15:09 AM EST
You should hear some of the names she has to deal with. The best one ever: Fukwanda (pronounced FU-kwan-da).

 
----------------------------

"'Vengence is Mine', quoth Alvis. And then he shot the guy, right in the freaking face!"

Hmm. by Idempotent (4.00 / 1) #8 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:24:45 AM EST
That child will either be a slut or a monk/nun. Or a nun/monk post sex change.

[ Parent ]
Govan by Rogerborg (4.00 / 1) #31 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:34:23 AM EST
Immigrant family naming their kid after their new locality.

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Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]
Of course, by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #9 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:38:18 AM EST
they missed Ambrose off the good list.

That said, I was mightily embarassed the other day when my dad bumped into a teacher I once made cry, and she warmly sent along her greetings. It made me feel evil.

you made a teacher cry? by komet (2.00 / 0) #10 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:41:12 AM EST
Surely that's worth a diary entry.

--
<ni> komet: You are functionally illiterate as regards trashy erotica.
[ Parent ]
Not live. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #15 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:49:52 AM EST
It was just because despite the fact I was among the best students in the college, I'd turned in a poorly drunkly handwritten project on (IIRC) Neton-Raphson equations.

I didn't go to any classes for that module of my course, and only started reading the course book half an hour before, so I got a fairly poor mark for that module. To my shame.

I was hauled in to the office of the head of faculty when I turned up at college, having taken (my only) sicky (of the 2 years) the day before, who said she'd come in to his office crying and asking if I had any good reasons he shouldn't kick me off the course. Her father was dying at the time.

After one of her lessons, I was congratulated by a fellow student as having been "On form" that lesson. Which was gratifying, although I conceed I should have left control of the lesson to the teacher, in an ideal world.

[ Parent ]
Depends why she cryed, I suppose. by Idempotent (4.00 / 1) #12 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:46:31 AM EST
Did you dump her, or did she dump you?

[ Parent ]
A lovely person, by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:52:07 AM EST
but not that pretty, so it was neither.

[ Parent ]
She had a great personality? /nt by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #21 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:53:12 AM EST


[ Parent ]
And a really nice smile by Gully Foyle (2.00 / 0) #46 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:26:34 AM EST
No Teeth

[ Parent ]
Are we mocking webwench still? /nt by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #47 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:30:05 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Howcome I get the 1.00/1 for doing that? by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #48 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:36:45 AM EST


[ Parent ]
it was the gratuitousness by webwench (4.00 / 1) #49 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:46:07 AM EST
and lack of context. I mean, there are entire diary comment sections dedicated to this already.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

[ Parent ]
But Idempotent set me up the context. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #50 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:53:28 AM EST
Fair enough, though. There is one comment section on it already in this diary, and 10s of diaries posted today without any in, so I should get on the case of that now.

[ Parent ]
The context by webwench (4.00 / 1) #51 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:00:17 AM EST
was me being asked what my son's name was, my answer being followed up by advice on what I should tell my seven-year-old son about blowjobs. It's creepy, sorry.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

[ Parent ]
Ah. by ambrosen (4.00 / 1) #52 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 09:03:50 AM EST
You don't expect me to read any of the comments except those with the shiny red [new] next to them, do you? I'd be here all day. Oh wait, I am here all day.

[ Parent ]
Oops by Gully Foyle (2.00 / 0) #54 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:29:06 PM EST
I didn't actually intend that comment as a slight to you. I was just stompin around in my usual size 10s.

[ Parent ]
No worries by webwench (4.00 / 1) #55 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 12:52:13 PM EST
This is the thread I wasn't so happy about, but you weren't involved in that. No biggie, I'm not that easily offended.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

[ Parent ]
Uh, I think that you're leaping to conclusions by IEFBR14 (2.00 / 0) #11 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:45:48 AM EST
about the teachers and journo, anyway. I agree completely about the parents.

That article is pretty damn neutral - it says teachers think kids with stupid names will be trouble; parents are a bit miffed. It doesn't say anything about why teachers think that, or whether they're right.

In my experience, they are right, and for the reasons you suggest, but you can't attack the article for not taking sides.

Incidentally: Gyaike. FFS, Gyaike? I'm guessing that that's supposed to be Jake, but it took me a couple of minutes to muster any attempt at pronouncing it.

A teacher I know taught a kid named BoneyM the year before last.

not taking sides... by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:50:06 AM EST
Yes I can. Journalists forget that while there are two sides to a story, there is also the truth. And bizarrely, they pride themselves on seeking out the truth.

So yes, I can attack it for not bothering to point out that both sides are stupid.

[ Parent ]
Truth? Journalists? Troll. by IEFBR14 (2.00 / 0) #28 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:16:36 AM EST
Nah, anyone with half a brain reading that article is going to draw much the same conclusions you did, because it begs the question 'Hang on, what about the parents who come up with this crap?'

Good journos shouldn't go telling people what to think about a story, that's what the Daily Mail does. Better to be conspicuously neutral and leave the reader to draw the obvious conclusion you've led them to, IMO.

And you're wrong to say both sides are stupid. I say that the teachers are correct, they're just not showing their working. (Do as I say, not...)

[ Parent ]
I forget which European country by jump the ladder (2.00 / 0) #14 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:49:36 AM EST
Does this but only a name from the approved list of names is allowed on the birth certificate. I think it's a good idea as having a stupid name makes you subject to a lot of teasing and bullying at school and might stop you getting a job or further education.

Sweden, IIRC. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #18 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:51:07 AM EST
France is a bit sniffy about it.

I find having a stupid name didn't really bother me.

[ Parent ]
I dunno. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #20 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 05:52:35 AM EST
Letting stupid people have stupid names saves branding them for easy identification.

[ Parent ]
Saves [us] branding them? by gazbo (2.00 / 0) #27 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:13:08 AM EST
That's like saving someone from having to receive oral sex, or saving someone from a chilled post-work pint.

I recommend always assuming 7th normal form where items in a text column are not allowed to rhyme.

[ Parent ]
Sicko. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #35 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:43:20 AM EST
So you're a dirty pervert into branding? Kind of extreme S&M, isn't it?

[ Parent ]
Germany did in the Nineties. by ammoniacal (2.00 / 0) #53 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 10:35:30 AM EST
Don't know about now.

"To this day that was the most bullshit caesar salad I have every experienced..." - triggerfinger

[ Parent ]
Heh by webwench (4.00 / 1) #37 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 06:57:45 AM EST
There's probaby something to the correlation between 'stupid' kids' names, and their behavior, but on the other hand, is the name the child's fault? And is it a guaranteed correlation? And does the teachers' association with the kid's name and trouble cause the teacher to notice that child's troublemaking activities more than she might notice the antics of nice little Ryan?

This did disturb me a bit: "One teacher wrote: 'I went through my new class list and mentally circled the ones I thought would be difficult. I reckon I have a 75% hit rate...'" I mean, prejudging is human nature and, to some extent, unavoidable, but shouldn't teachers of all people be making a valiant attempt to get past these factors?

Yeah, cause and effect do get interesting here.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

Oh FFS. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #38 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:24:40 AM EST
My point was that the name was irrelevant to causing the child's behaviour, but did act as a warning sign that the child was likely to have crap parents. And crap parents cause badly behaved children.

What did you call your child?

[ Parent ]
you should check out by tps12 (2.00 / 0) #39 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:31:52 AM EST
The chapter on parenting and baby names in Freakonomics. Mostly the name serves as a "warning sign" of socioeconomic class, which negatively impacts a child's school performance regardless of how crap the parents are. Or so say the data.

[ Parent ]
So in fact you're saying I'm right. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #42 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:47:57 AM EST
Name indicates ability of parent to do parenting well.

[ Parent ]
not really by tps12 (2.00 / 0) #43 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:58:09 AM EST
Basically they broke down a bunch of survey results that could show what kind of parents a kid has: do they take their kid to museums, are the parents still together, do they attend PTA meetings, &c. And it turned out that the ones that could fall under the term "parenting"—e.g., whether they read to their child—don't matter a whole lot, but that the ones that are just class-related—whether they have a lot of books in their home—are good predictors of school performance.

Since baby names correlate more with class than with parenting style, they are likewise good predictors of results in the classroom (even setting aside how teachers' expectations impact student performance).

[ Parent ]
My child has a very normal, vanilla name, by webwench (2.00 / 0) #40 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:41:26 AM EST
which no doubt will have pleasant or at least benign associations for his teachers.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

[ Parent ]
Sounds great. by Idempotent (2.00 / 1) #41 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 07:47:02 AM EST
Just make sure you don't give it any dating advice. Or lessons on blow-jobs, for that matter.

[ Parent ]
:P by webwench (2.00 / 0) #44 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:03:17 AM EST
Come now, think about that.

~~~ giving free but really sucky dating advice on web forums since 2001 ~~~

[ Parent ]
Interesting smiley. by ambrosen (1.00 / 1) #45 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 08:10:55 AM EST
Shows everything you're doing wrong.

[ Parent ]
Interesting by vorheesleatherface (2.00 / 0) #56 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 04:16:54 PM EST
One of the nicest, prettiest girls I met in college was named Bobbi-Jo. A real sweetheart. Nice to everyone.


"nice" by Idempotent (4.00 / 1) #57 Fri Sep 23, 2005 at 11:56:38 PM EST
In the "school bicycle" sense?

[ Parent ]
Naw by vorheesleatherface (2.00 / 0) #58 Sat Sep 24, 2005 at 12:22:31 AM EST
Although that would have been something.


[ Parent ]
Good to see I'm a delightful child by nebbish (2.00 / 0) #59 Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 12:42:16 AM EST
There are a couple of tearaways on the estate where I work with "O"s at the end of their names - Johno and Jameo. Always watch out for that now.

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It's political correctness gone mad!

Maybe it's just a naming convention. by Idempotent (4.00 / 1) #60 Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 01:20:23 AM EST
They're handy in programming, so why not real life?

[ Parent ]
It's like prepending your geek code to your name by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #61 Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 08:03:10 AM EST


[ Parent ]
I don't think anyone would do that. by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #62 Mon Sep 26, 2005 at 11:44:25 PM EST
Maybe you would.

[ Parent ]
Some of us use our own names here. by ambrosen (2.00 / 0) #63 Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 04:40:13 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Yeah, like I believe that. /nt by Idempotent (2.00 / 0) #64 Tue Sep 27, 2005 at 11:08:01 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Cause and effect, for beginners. | 64 comments (64 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback