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By TheophileEscargot (Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:34:18 PM EST) (all tags)
Me. Web.

Poll: If Dean loses to Bush by a landslide?


Me
Tired but overstimulated. Finish work for a holiday in a few days: just going to stay with the folks for Xmas though.

Work: fucked. Desperately needed to get this thing finished, but Israeli contractors still can't get the system going. They're complaining about the data (which my code just copies from another server) but the data I've been testing with uses the same sample data they've had for ages and were supposed to be coding to.

From a sarcastic e-mail I got at 7PM, I'm pretty sure that they somehow just lost (at least) the last set of data. In that, they're not just complaining about the data itself, but the DTDs which have not changed in ages. Sent back a mildly sarcastic reply pointing this out, with the e-mail containing the last data attached. It's all very well covering myself, but the project is still really screwed if they coded the app against obsolete data.

Web
Oh well, at least I got to do some good old-school flaming on the sites the other day. I'm almost hoping Dean loses to Bush now, just so I can launch the mother of all I told you sos.

Max Hastings on Why I am no longer a European. Not convinced he was ever that pro-European, but it does articulate the way things are going pretty well.

They seemed oblivious of the fact that, if Britain failed to take its place in Europe, no possible alternative partnership was available, least of all with the US. A clever American diplomat said to me in the early 1990s: "Just remember that the US is interested in Britain only insofar as Britain is a player in Europe."

...Europe shows a boundless appetite for creating common structures and bureaucracies, yet lacks the slightest willingness to provide forces to give them substance. Optimists, most of them in Downing Street, suggest that if the bureaucracies are formed, the substance will follow. There are no grounds to believe this.

Stolen from Metafilter: Why celebrities endorse charities. Bill Cosby got a "$75,000 fee and $10,000 in expense money to receive the Humanitarian Award". Gerald Ford accepted $200,000 "for agreeing to receive the Special Giving Award".

If you're not reading K5 regularly anymore, mcc's Weekly Haiku Digest will wittily keep you up to date with the queue.

< My Bidar was not faulty. | BBC White season: 'Rivers of Blood' >

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Poll
If Dean loses to Bush by a landslide?
- I shall say "I told you so" 28%
- I will silently think "I told you so" 7%
- I will admit T.E. was right, and endorse a moderate candidate next time 28%
- I will continue to endorse McGovern/Dukakis/Dean-type hopeless primary candidates 35%

Votes: 14
Results | Other Polls
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I'd buy that for a dollar | 62 comments (62 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback
Damn by TheophileEscargot (3.00 / 0) #1 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:36:02 PM EST
Dukakis doesn't really fit there but what the hell.
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell


Write in: by blixco (4.80 / 5) #2 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:38:02 PM EST
I will move to Canada.

Might not even pack.
-----------------------------
we are the change we wish to see in the world - gandhi via infinitera


Enjoy Canada. by mrgoat (4.00 / 2) #3 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:45:51 PM EST

Years pass, things change, you end up living in Kansas. But the bag of dicks never leaves your side... - blixco
--top hat--
[ Parent ]

Oh, Canada by TheophileEscargot (6.00 / 1) #4 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:46:32 PM EST
Your home and native land will probably be next in line for invasion.

You're better of choosing Liechtenstein, Gautemala, Djibouti or another country that he'll be too scared to pronounce in a pre-invasion speech.

Kyrgyzstan might be your best bet...
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

Wrong by theboz (5.00 / 3) #31 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:19:06 PM EST
There will be "nuculer" attacks on Lickingstein, Guttamalah, Didyaboody, and K-stan.
- - - - -
That's what I always say about you, boz, you have a good memory for random facts about pussy. -- joh3n
[ Parent ]

Don't let the door hit your ass by MrPlow (4.00 / 1) #24 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 07:27:01 PM EST
on the way out.

Slightly more seriously, I have always been completely unimpressed with statements like that.  It always comes across as the kind of playground whining where some clown takes his ball and goes home when things don't go his way.

[ Parent ]

We need to work on your by blixco (4.33 / 3) #44 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 05:35:39 AM EST
sense of humor.

And on your sense of impending doom.
-----------------------------
we are the change we wish to see in the world - gandhi via infinitera
[ Parent ]

Perhaps by MrPlow (3.00 / 1) #61 Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 08:28:50 PM EST
you are correct.

Maybe I shouldn't read stuff like that when I'm already in a bad mood.

[ Parent ]

I'm with blix by LoppEar (4.33 / 3) #5 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:48:48 PM EST
I will be out of the country before Jan 2005 in that case.

Of course, I may execute that plan even if Dean/Clark/etc wins, but it is a certainty with a Bush win.




oh by LoppEar (4.50 / 2) #6 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:50:48 PM EST
And by "with blix" I meant philosophically, like-mindedly: There's no way I'll go to Canada.


[ Parent ]

These aren't exclusive with my poll you know by TheophileEscargot (3.00 / 0) #8 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:57:26 PM EST
You can say I told you so in other countries too...
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

We could have... by blixco (3.00 / 0) #53 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 11:15:11 AM EST
...a hell of a compound.  Or commune, I guess, since outside the US gatherings of like-minded folk have terms other than "seperatist compound / religious cult."
-----------------------------
we are the change we wish to see in the world - gandhi via infinitera
[ Parent ]

bookmarked; by webwench (4.00 / 1) #25 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 07:31:48 PM EST
I'll check on you in 2005 :)

Getting more attention than you since 1998. Ya ya!
[ Parent ]

Two comments by ucblockhead (4.50 / 2) #7 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 03:56:20 PM EST
1) I personally am not saying that Dean won't lose. He very well might. I'm just saying that it is far too soon to make any predictions, especially with things as volitile as they are.

2) Consider this: Over the last thirty years, the Democrats have run two sorts of candidates. One sort was the party insider (usually congressman) who was annointed by the party leadership. The other was small-state governor who caught the party by suprise early in the primary season.

Examples of the latter: Carter, Clinton.
Examples of the latter: McGovern,Humphrey,Mondale, Dukakis,Gore.

Of course, you go back further, and it breaks down, so you never can tell.
----
ウセーバラケダ


Yeah, but by DesiredUsername (4.50 / 2) #10 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 04:19:14 PM EST
Both of those Democratic governers were from Southern (==conservative) states. Vermontions are damnyankees.

---
Now accepting suggestions for a new sigline
[ Parent ]

Mike by ad hoc (6.00 / 1) #14 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 05:29:22 PM EST
Dukakis belongs in the Carter, Clinton group. He was Governor of Massachusetts.
--
The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]

He was an insider by ucblockhead (3.00 / 0) #23 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 07:08:49 PM EST
Dukakis wasn't a party outsider like Clinton and Carter were.
----
ウセーバラケダ
[ Parent ]

If you say so by ad hoc (3.00 / 0) #30 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:17:50 PM EST
living here, everyone looks like an insider since they're all local.

I read "Washington" insider.
--
The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]

Sorry TheoEsc... by superdiva (5.00 / 1) #9 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 04:13:03 PM EST
But I'm still traumatized from the 2000 election and the prospect of Bush winning again is just emotionally too much for me to handle in light of recent events...

I can't believe Burton got kicked off the island.


_________________________________________________
The only thing in my trunk is 1200 watts of bass, bass, bass. Booty-shaking, ground pounding bass. - Blixco


Not "if" Bush wins by a landslide: by Bold Marauder (1.80 / 5) #11 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 04:23:31 PM EST
"WHEN"

Everyone I talk to is either voting for Bush, or wishes that their prison record allowed them to.



tip by tps12 (4.66 / 3) #16 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 05:34:17 PM EST
Start talking to someone other than Rush's call screener.

[ Parent ]

national disconnect by martingale (3.00 / 0) #12 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 04:51:58 PM EST
This national disconnect you have on Europe is becoming a liability, I think.

For me, I'm rather happy to finally see some action on the Franco-German front. The last few years have made it painfully obvious that the federalist bullshit we've had for a generation isn't the answer.

We really need to move towards a European superstate to protect the population in the future and preserve the freedoms we've gained - more accountability and scrutiny of Bruxelles, of course, but less opt-in, opt-out bullshit from member states.

I didn't always used to think that way. But when you look at the way the US is trying to control the world now, and its (and the UK's) fairly successful putsch at the UN, the writing is on the wall.

What the current US policy has highlighted is Europe's fundamental vulnerabilty to divide and conquer. I'd be weary about the Poles if I were UKian. That US diplomat's comments are right on the mark. The interest that the US have shown to the Poles is designed to open a second door into Europe, and when that happens the UK will lose its most favoured place, imho.

Anyway, this is turning into a rant, so I just want to say something about what you said in another diary. The two speed Europe is both a blessing and a curse for Britain. If the closer French and German integration fails, well that'll be that. But if it succeeds, it's not so good for Britain. If you're joining instead of help founding, you can't change the rules to suit yourself, and setting up the rules in advance is what the two speed Europe is all about.
--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$


Very strange that the Poles don't trust Germany by TheophileEscargot (6.00 / 1) #38 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 12:16:56 AM EST
I think you're unduly optimistic about a European superstate. It would almost certainly lead to an isolated "fortress Europe": look at the vast subsidies and protectionism that exist at the moment.

Certainly compared to the UK it would be an anti-immigration, almost white supremacist state.Non-whites would be non-citizens as in Germany.

Also I think you're highly mistaken if you imagine it being a military superpower fielding powerful long-range forces. If anything it would be more isolationist than present-day Europe.
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

Immigration by fraise (3.00 / 0) #39 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 02:34:14 AM EST
Right now, in France it could go either way. Yesterday I worked on a couple documents for the Prime Minister's office (woo yeah), on their plans to curb racism and promote equality (versus egalitarianism), but I did note a distinct lack of commentary on immigration policy. One thing they're not going to do is copy the US model of Equal Opportunity (quotas etc.). But the current Minister of the Interior, Sarkozy, has been trying to pass harsher immigration laws, and from the word on the street, it doesn't really bother citizens. They either don't care much, or if they do it's because their ancestors were immigrants and they still feel the effects of discrimination, having a family name that isn't French. (I experience that myself.) On the one hand everyone's preaching "equality for all, end racism" and on the other there are quite a few railing "get rid of those damned socially-assisted immigrants". Like in the US and the UK, non-immigrants simply have no idea what immigrants actually experience, so it's easy to vilify them.

The plan is for Chirac's and Raffarin's "communications" effort to work, thus changing perceptions... so maybe, just maybe, immigration laws won't get harsher. They're working together with national TV stations and various other media to put forward stories of sucessful immigrants rather than criminals; planning to follow up racist incidents in schools more effectively; things like that. As an American I'm pretty cynical as to how effective that will be, because we have the same thing in the US, and rather than changing perceptions it's simply lead to cognitive dissonance. "I'm not a racist. We're all equal. Get out of my country you dirty [insert racist term here]."

Wish I had more time to put forward a cogent post, my rambling will have to do...
--

[ Parent ]

yeah, it's a Russian thing, too by martingale (3.00 / 0) #43 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 05:06:43 AM EST
Warning: possibly paranoid ramblings below. I'm not even sure I'm totally making sense.
Also I think you're highly mistaken if you imagine it being a military superpower fielding powerful long-range forces. If anything it would be more isolationist than present-day Europe.

I'm not really fussed about military power, and I certainly don't care much about power projection. So it's not about making Europe militarily strong.

I'm thinking purely defensively, in the sense that there must be trust and coordination between member states, and there can't be military rivalry. With present structures, we just can't get our acts together if it counts, if every prime minister or president is going to take his own decisions or argue the details. That's the lesson I'm taking out of the last ten years.

We've had and have exactly one source of strong coordination: Nato. And that's due to the US leadership. But now, what if the US ever decides to turn against us in the future? A few years ago, this thought would have been entirely ludicrous. Now I think it's plausible a few US presidents down the track (worst case scenario of course). Can we afford not to be ready?

Maybe this is just some temporary paranoia attack I'm having ;-).

The other potential problem is loose political structuring of the EU itself. Fundamentally, the Franco-German axis is based on extremely close economic and political ties built up over the last 50 years starting with coal and steel, and that's what generates the necessary trust to coexist peacefully.

There's no such trust between, say, Sweden and the Slovaks, yet. In fact, none of the new members have any kind of investment in the EU. For the moment it's insurance for us and it's simply a good economic proposition for them. I don't begrudge them that, everyone is an upstart sometime, but to take an analogy, I'd feel safer if the new states bring some collateral to the table. The collateral I prefer is reduced political or military autonomy.

It just seems the cautious thing to do. Does that make sense?

Certainly compared to the UK it would be an anti-immigration, almost white supremacist state.Non-whites would be non-citizens as in Germany.
Why? Because the institutions would be dominated by continentals? If you really believe that, then it's a strong reason for engaging Europe. The UK has a leadership role to play in Europe, but that requires shaping the common political and social ideals. Once those are set and fully in place, it will be too late for radical changes.

As it is, there are fairly big social differences between the northerners and the southerners in the EU. They are clearly being reduced by the free movements of people. The current racist issues are, imho, basically economic. I don't have a magic answer, but I'm as much concerned about these problems within Germany as I am about, say, the UK riots in the north. Modern Germany is very much different from the old Nazi state. There just isn't a comparison.

Damn, I have a headache that's been killing me. I've got to stop this comment.
--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
[ Parent ]

That is rubish. by Tonatiuh (3.00 / 0) #60 Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 04:30:26 PM EST
The laws to acquire citizenship in Germany may be outdated (they have been reviewed btw), nevertheless the proportion of immigrants living in both countries is comparable. Germany took the brunt of the Balkans mass emmigration at a time when it was dealing with the enormous economic and social pressures of the reunification.

Frankly racism is equaly prevalent in both societies, while I have never been insulted in Germany, even in close proximity of skinheads, here in the UK I have been called names several times. This is just anecdotal but being a regular reader of German press the situation seems awafully familiar, and most importantly, contained as in the UK.

It always amazes me how easily Brits criticize modern Germany using tired cliches of stereotypes when in reality they should be looking closer home. WWII is over, time to move on.

[ Parent ]

Look into that Irish citizenship by johnny (3.00 / 0) #13 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 05:02:57 PM EST
My cousin Bremser got his a few years ago, so I know it's possible (because of our Irish grandmother).  Isn't it the case that if I become an Irish citizen I can get a logical "green card" to work anywhere in the EU?  Hmm. . . I should start the paperwork. . .
Buy my books, dammit!


And!! by ad hoc (3.00 / 0) #15 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 05:30:43 PM EST
if you're an artist, don't you live tax free?
--
The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
[ Parent ]

oh stop it by tps12 (5.00 / 2) #17 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 05:46:56 PM EST
Dean is an intelligent centrist; Bush is a moron, and a terrible president, and he barely won in 2000. This campaign is the Democrats' to lose.



IAWTP by infinitera (4.00 / 2) #18 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 06:37:34 PM EST
I am voting for Dean precisely because he is a moderate - his only 'left' stances are fair trade/labor standards, civil unions, and health care of some form. His foreign and fiscal policy are downright conservative, far more so than Bush's radicalism. Dean gave a speech today detailing his foreign policy - I am really incensed, it's still full support of capitalist empire, but compared to Dubya it's kinda tame. I feel apostate for saying that.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Re healthcare by R343L (5.00 / 1) #47 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 06:14:20 AM EST
Healthcare is seen by many as an achilles heel. But a lot of Americans (all?) think it is too expensive. And many are easily swayed by "All children should have healthcare" lines. I don't think healthcare will be that much of an issue.

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

However by lb008d (3.00 / 0) #51 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 09:15:20 AM EST
Bush's idiocy appeals to a lot of people. They see him as a good 'ol boy to whom they can relate.

I feel bad for our UKian brethren, stuck under an inefficient government ruled by an incompetent hereditary ruling class. I can't imagine what that's like, but it must surely suck - georgeha


[ Parent ]

mr. "soviet union" dean.. by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #52 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 10:51:48 AM EST
Can combat Bush on that factor too! ;)


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

re: poll by lm (4.00 / 1) #19 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 06:38:30 PM EST
If Dean loses to Bush in a landslide, I'll admit that I'm entirely, complete and utterly wrong about what I presently think will happen. (As an aside, I think this will only happen if Osama bin Laden is found before the election and the US economy gets all fired up again. If only one of those happens, the election will be relatively close but the odds will favor Bush. If neither happens, the odds will slightly favor the challenger regardless of who he or she is. If the economy tanks or if Osama bin Laden makes another successful attack on mainland USA, Bush will be ousted in a landslide.)

But I'm not about to start endorsing 'moderate' candidates until such point in time as they begin to have the qualities that I look for in someone that I'd like to vote for president. I'm pro-Dean more because I don't trust Lieberman than because the L word allegedly describes him. I think Dean has some of the character traits that make a good president such as rethinking his positions in a logical fashion and changing his mind based on new ideas.

That is all.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic


yeah, agreed on characterological matters by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #20 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 06:42:44 PM EST
If Bush is re-elected, I'm getting out of here. It will take decades to recover from the domestic dismantling and coverups that a back-to-back Bush administration will have license to engage in.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

oh, and.. by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #21 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 06:48:51 PM EST
Lieberman?? Moderate? The guy is in the wrong party, he's to the right of McCain for crying out loud. Clark's pretty moderate, Edwards too. Gephardt is a "uniter not a divider" but has too much labor support to be moderate.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Who said Lieberman was moderate? by lm (5.00 / 1) #29 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:17:47 PM EST
I mentioned Lieberman in the context of speaking of endorsing 'moderate' candidates.
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

i blame finals for lack of reading comprehension by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #33 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:25:56 PM EST
Sorry. ;)


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

dear mr. snail, by infinitera (2.00 / 1) #22 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 06:53:55 PM EST
You are about as in-touch with American political reality as Alfie (a visitor to my k5 diary), except that you are on the other side of the political fence.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt


No fair by lm (6.00 / 1) #35 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:32:47 PM EST
You tricked me into posting on k5. Damned cookies!
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

lm by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #36 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:33:55 PM EST
Is a big fat idiot, and other observations.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Well stop reading my diary then by TheophileEscargot (5.00 / 1) #37 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 12:10:10 AM EST
You've posted fourteen comments in the last two diaries alone. Stop reading it if it raised your blood pressure so much.

Time will tell, but if Dean does lose by a landslide (10 states or fewer) I expect a humble apology from you, an admission that you helped give Bush a second term, and an agreement to endorse an electable primary candidate next time.

Since you're so confident it won't happen, I'm sure you'll agree to this, right?
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

blood pressure? sheesh by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #41 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 04:17:49 AM EST
I'm just a crapflooder, albeit politically. It's easier than writing my last two papers.

I agree to that.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

if i might ask for an agreement in return.. by infinitera (3.50 / 2) #42 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 04:21:43 AM EST
If that does not come about, you will have an entire diary of crow-eating, explaining why you're not a very good judge of American electability or alignment.

To be more generous, only if Dean wins, not comes close.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Oh I certainly will if Dean wins by TheophileEscargot (4.50 / 2) #54 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 01:36:42 PM EST
The only thing that would really depress me would be a narrow victory for Bush...
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

I'm curious... by Metatone (3.00 / 0) #45 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 05:48:12 AM EST
who would you say is an electable primary candidate?

[ Parent ]

heh by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #49 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 06:41:33 AM EST
I don't know what's on TE's mind, obviously, but as I and some others have said in this diary, we're voting for Dean not because he's a liberal (he's not) but because we think he's electable. The only other real (moderate, strong) choices are Gephardt and Clark.
  1. Gephardt is a long-time loser and a big policy wonk. You won't win against Dubya by harping on details of policies, by having niggling disagreements over the handling of the war.
  2. Clark - well, I guess he is electable, I just think he's representing the Clinton wing of the party, as well as being somewhat regressive in his love of order and authority. I don't particularly trust him to stay the course in his policy proclamations.
Hence my sig.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

it occurs to me.. by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #50 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 06:43:24 AM EST
(And I'm sorry, TE, for posting again, since it obviously seems to annoy you. I'm absent-minded. :P).

Anyways, it occurs to me that TE's litmus test for unrealistic liberalism is undying opposition to the Iraq war. ;) In which case, only Gephardt manages to survive as a moderate.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Why is landslide measured in states? by lm (3.00 / 0) #56 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 08:17:34 PM EST
Shouldn't a proper landslide be measured by the popular vote, say 10% to 15% or more?
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Well, it ought to be electoral college votes by TheophileEscargot (3.00 / 0) #57 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 11:21:08 PM EST
But I can't think of how many constitutes a landslide offhand.
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

Why? by lm (3.00 / 0) #58 Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 05:14:24 AM EST
The question regarding "why states?" is essentially the same as "why electoral college votes?"

Why not the popular vote?

And FYI, each state gets one seat at the electoral college for each US senator and representative, currently the total number of seats is 538.

There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

Er, because president's aren't elected that way by TheophileEscargot (4.00 / 1) #59 Wed Dec 17, 2003 at 11:33:46 AM EST
Also because third party candidates can have a big impact on percentages, without usually changing the number of states won much.

It seems more natural to me, maybe because I'm more used to thinking of landslides in terms of the number of seats in parliament.
--
"Everything is vague to a degree you do not realize till you have tried to make it precise." -- Bertrand Russell
[ Parent ]

True, but ... by lm (3.00 / 0) #62 Thu Dec 18, 2003 at 05:01:52 PM EST
... a landslide implies an overwhelming victory. A 'landslide' victory in the electoral college could very well be a slim victory in the popular vote. A president with a slim popular vote is not seen as having a powerful bully pulpit, while a president elected with a lanslide popular vote is seen as having a mandate from the people for his or her platform.
There is no more degenerate kind of state than that in which the richest are supposed to be the best.
Cicero, The Republic
[ Parent ]

fatalism by MillMan (3.00 / 0) #26 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 07:49:38 PM EST
I'm almost hoping Dean loses to Bush now, just so I can launch the mother of all I told you sos.

Hey, we all have to live with the consequences if Bush wins again. Suck it up you depressed lefty :p

When I'm imprisoned as an enemy combatant, will you blog about it?


One outcome that would make me truly happy: by spcmanspiff (5.00 / 1) #27 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 07:56:45 PM EST
If Dean defeats Bush by a landslide. Not that likely, I know, but a year ago it didn't seem likely that he'd blow New Hampshire out of the water in the primary either.

It's not even really about Dean all that much; like most first-term incumbents the election will be, more or less, a referendum on their rule. Dean's willingness to loudly point out Bush's many gaping faults, if it continues to be effective, will help push things along in this direction.

And if Americans come out and say in massive numbers that they actually want more of the same, well, fuck. I don't begrudge people their choices but that will be the Big Red Flag telling me that this is definitely not the type of society I'd like to be a part of. So what then? Spend my life as a marginalized activist, trying to change the world with magic markers and placards? As a disaffected and apathetic outsider? Or should I just up and move somewhere else?

One thing that I love about Dean is that his candidacy has already become the de facto referendum on the Democratic party -- not a big "fuck you" to party insiders, but more of a "you fucked up!"

His success so far gives me great hope, something I've not felt about the political arena in, well, forever.



well, he certainly has a message of hope.. by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #28 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:08:58 PM EST
And inclusion, great society, etc. But I'm not sure I feel hope about the political arena in general because of him; he's not that special aside from his funding/organization type. He is in most ways a conservative, when I am still looking for a liberal (I am using classical terms here, not Republican/Democrat). He thinks the role of the USian superpower is a well-deserved and important one, and that there isn't much to be done about poverty or homelessness at home; he's got similar welfare positions to Clinton's.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Well, yes, he's no liberal. by spcmanspiff (6.00 / 1) #32 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:24:21 PM EST
I'm far more liberal than Mr. Dean and hold no great hopes for revolution from him. Bits and pieces of progress, yes; dribbling out from his (prospective) administration like the little crumbs that came out under Clinton with a vast amount of the same old global, uber-corporation flavored capitalism as well.

The thing that makes me hopeful is the great amounts of whoop-ass so far dished out upon the entrenched and spineless Democratic establishment.

So yeah, it's mostly process (funding, organization, etc) that's uplifiting to me. But before there will ever be solid progress on issues the process needs a good shakeup, and so far he's leading the way.

[ Parent ]

nicely put by infinitera (3.00 / 0) #34 Mon Dec 15, 2003 at 08:28:24 PM EST
Also, I might've been wrong about housing, at least.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

Write in: by Rogerborg (4.00 / 2) #40 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 03:04:14 AM EST
I'll send you a postcard from whatever jungle hell or desert furnace I get posted to after the draft.

-
Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.


I object! by R343L (3.00 / 0) #46 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 06:11:34 AM EST
That poll is hopelessly biased! The Dept of Poll Bias Removal will be having a talk with you.

My vote is: "I will continue to vote for candidates who have a chance of winning and are not completely bought off by corporations and rich people."

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot


a fine sentiment by infinitera (2.00 / 1) #48 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 06:15:45 AM EST
But you'll run out of candidates pretty quickly in national elections.


I was always taught to sin boldly. - gzt
[ Parent ]

I was very precise by R343L (6.00 / 1) #55 Tue Dec 16, 2003 at 08:01:38 PM EST
Notice the "completely". I.e. Dean will be bought off, but not quite so much as Bush who, if he were female, would be known by a less than flattering term.

Rachael

"There will be time, there will be time / To prepare a face to meet the faces that you meet." -- Eliot
[ Parent ]

I'd buy that for a dollar | 62 comments (62 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

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