Media Companies

Have the right to do with their material what they wish   1 vote - 33 %
Are digging their own graves   3 votes - 100 %
Gedvondur, you unAmerican fuck   1 vote - 33 %
 
3 Total Votes
Part of the problem is the lingustic trap that by MartiniPhilosopher (4.00 / 3) #1 Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 10:29:53 PM EST
they have put themselves into.

Specifically, where by they talk about how one "consumes" a product of media. One does no such thing. If I consume food or air or water it is transformed to the point that it cannot be used again immediately. The products of the media do not suffer any such transformation. They are as pristine after having watched, heard, or read as they were before such was done to them. Properly maintained these are the most enduring of all products of the human world.

People are largely waking up to this fact; Not only as you have pointed out, that we can live without, but also that it is the ephemeral experience of the reading, the listening, or the watching is what matters most. The choice to watch, listen or read at the designated time as decided by other people is quickly coming to an end.

The technology which delivered the greatest profits for these same people, VCRs and DVD player, sewed the seeds for this. The 24 hour news station is part of this as well. There was a chance to try and kill the technology, but instead it has turned the tables and is threatening to kill them.

Whenever I hear one of those aforementioned douche bags pontificate about how dangerous [...] videogames are I get a little stabby. --Wil Wheaton.

(Comment Deleted) by yicky yacky (4.00 / 3) #3 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 02:28:06 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by yicky yacky



[ Parent ]
Thank you, Sir! by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #11 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 09:15:50 AM EST
I'll check it out.  Your points are very good.


Gedvondur

"...I almost puked like a pregnant StackyMcRacky." --MillMan
[ Parent ]
all property is theft by dr k (4.00 / 1) #4 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 02:29:07 AM EST
The rule of law is one of the key institutions that keeps civilization from falling to ruin. You pay rent for an apartment that someone else owns, yet I don't see you complaining that one month's rent only applies to the current month. Sure you can sub-let the apartment to someone else, but that does not make you the owner of the apartment. These are all legal constructions -- owning, renting, limits on the use of the resource. Why would you expect to be allowed to share or sell a resource that doesn't by law belong to you? And if piracy isn't your thing, if you just don't like DRM, you have a choice to not buy those products.


:| :| :| :| :|

[ Parent ]
(Comment Deleted) by yicky yacky (4.00 / 1) #5 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 02:32:55 AM EST

This comment has been deleted by yicky yacky



[ Parent ]
Hollywood movies are fungible [n/t] by Herring (4.00 / 2) #6 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 03:18:14 AM EST


You can't inspire people with facts
- Small Gods

[ Parent ]
yes, I read your post by dr k (4.00 / 1) #7 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 03:21:53 AM EST
but I disagree that the impediments for information transfer have been removed. The impediments are no longer controlled by media companies (for now), but there are impediments in a decentralized system as well. For every increase in information transfer there is an even larger increase in the amount of information that wants to be transferred. There is no centralized authority to identify and authenticate information, which makes the system vulnerable to fraud and censorship (by making it easy to marginalize independent information sources). If there is no cost associated with distributing virus and malware infected data, then there will be a cost for locating safe data.

The successful media companies will therefore be the ones that pursue a two-faced strategy: pollute the public networks with malicious data and toxic codecs, while providing clean but highly restricted data for a reasonable consumer price.

:| :| :| :| :|

[ Parent ]
Hmmm by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #10 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 09:15:13 AM EST
Here I have t disagree with you.  It has been proven again and again that polluting the public networks is a tactic that simply doesn't work.  Companies have been trying to poison Gnutella networks for years, and its gotten them nowhere.  Anybody who has used those networks for more than 20 minutes and spot the fakes.  Same is true for bittorrent.  The community polices that kind of thing.


Gedvondur

"...I almost puked like a pregnant StackyMcRacky." --MillMan
[ Parent ]
All of this is true to a point by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #9 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 09:12:17 AM EST
To use your example, yes, I would pay for an apartment from month to month.  But in reality, as Yicky pointed out, these things are not the same.  To take the legalistic standpoint in this matter is to play into the media company's hands.  They want you to think you are renting and yes, they really do want money either on use or eve on a monthly basis. 

There is where the problem is at.  If they insist on taking the legal construct you have so nicely illustrated to its ultimate conclusion, then yes, I will choose not to consume their media.  It doesn't have to be this way.   If they insist on it, new media companies will rise that do NOT play that game.  In the end,  it will destroy them.


Gedvondur

"...I almost puked like a pregnant StackyMcRacky." --MillMan
[ Parent ]
Indeed, well said by Gedvondur (2.00 / 0) #8 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 09:03:42 AM EST
I do agree with you.  The point about the ephemeral experience in the sue of the entertainment is a good one. 

I also thing a telling point in what you say is the fact that the public is waking up to it.  Even my mother, in her 60s is starting to grok what is going on.


Gedvondur

"...I almost puked like a pregnant StackyMcRacky." --MillMan
[ Parent ]
we won this battle with music. by aphrael (4.00 / 1) #2 Thu Apr 23, 2009 at 10:45:51 PM EST
the removal of DRM from ITMS proved that.

television is next.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

next in what sense ? by sasquatchan (4.00 / 1) #12 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 09:42:22 AM EST
How did someone put it about the digital conversion from analog ?

We finally found a way to make people pay for something that has always been free


[ Parent ]
Your assumptions about ITS are incorrect by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #13 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 07:00:47 PM EST

But you're an outsider, so that's pretty much expected. Keep paying us, and nobody gets hurt.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
eh? by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #14 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 07:14:43 PM EST
the official story is that ITMS is no longer DRMed, and that the existence of DRM was originally something the record companies, not apple, insisted on.

are you saying that this official story is untrue?
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
Is that you attempting to troll me? by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #15 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 07:23:18 PM EST

What I'm saying is very simple: "you" didn't "win" any "battle", and the "removal" of "DRM" from IT(M)S is not "proof" that you did.

Good luck with your "battle" against tv though.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
no, i'm not attempting to troll you. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 10:42:25 PM EST
i just don't understand what you are saying.

"we" in the sense of "those of us who want the media companies to fuck off and be reasonable" won the battle with the media companies over recorded music.

unless you're saying apple isn't part of "we" in that sense, in which case i'm puzzled, because apple's behavior suggests they are.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
'You' weren't paying at all, by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #17 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 10:46:20 PM EST

and now 'you' are, as a result of ITS, and the media companies didn't lose to 'you', the consumer. They lost. And you lost. Somebody else won. But I think its important to note that I am in no way, shape, or form, speaking for or on the behalf of my employer, and since only one other dude here is in the internal directory, I'll not discuss the matter any further.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
hmm. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #18 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 10:49:37 PM EST
one point we're disagreeing on is this: i am now paying for something i want (DRM-free music) rather than paying for something i don't want (DRMed music) or stealing something i want.

i think that's a win for me.

it's also a win for apple.

which is capitalism at work -- two people exchanging goods, services, or money, in such a way that they both win.
If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.

[ Parent ]
Hoorah for capitalism! by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 10:58:32 PM EST

I'm just saying the consumer didn't play a terribly active role in this sequence of events. On the rest of it, we're on the same page; things are improved, and almost everybody is happy with that, except maybe the labels, who are going to have to come to terms with the fact that they're bloated and need to start handing out some pink slips. But that's their problem.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
Your employer won by ucblockhead (2.00 / 0) #20 Fri Apr 24, 2009 at 11:11:15 PM EST
Everyone else lost.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]
The part that hasn't changed by MohammedNiyalSayeed (2.00 / 0) #21 Sat Apr 25, 2009 at 01:34:16 AM EST

is the labels screwing over the artists. Not that I'm terribly sympathetic to most of them, both for lack of talent, and for inability to read contracts.


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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]
YOU SAID KRAFT DINNER!! by misslake (4.00 / 1) #22 Sun Apr 26, 2009 at 10:29:31 AM EST
this lifted my sprits.
i am pleased to know that there are americans who enjoy boxed orange cheese dinners, and don't refer to it as "macaroni and cheese."