Lunch next week?

can't, sorry   2 votes - 40 %
Monday   1 vote - 20 %
Tuesday   0 votes - 0 %
Wednesday   1 vote - 20 %
Thursday (straw man proposal)   2 votes - 40 %
Friday   1 vote - 20 %
Saturday (why not?)   0 votes - 0 %
-   2 votes - 40 %
theantix can't make it   0 votes - 0 %
 
5 Total Votes
But being obvious queers is sooo '90s! by greyrat (4.00 / 1) #1 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:57:21 AM EST
Isn't it much more fun to have the unsuspecting over for drinks, polite conversation and dinner, only to spring your queerness on them along with dessert?

I agree with greyrat by debacle (4.00 / 1) #2 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:03:47 AM EST
And on top of that, I don't think many people care that they are "obviously hetero." Perhaps it's a self-image thing, just as some people don't want to be seen as queer, perhaps she doesn't want to be seen as hetero? I can understand that. You don't want people making assumptions about you, but that's likely their fault? Who does it say more about in that sitation: The person who isn't obviously of a certain manner, or the person who assumed that they weren't? That could apply to anything, really. Sexual preference, creed, ethnicity, occupation, etc.

IF YOU HAVE TWO FIRLES THOROWNF MONEY ART SUOCIDE GIRLS STRIPPER HPW CAN YPUS :OSE?!?!?!?(elcevisides).

One of the cults I've participated in by greyrat (4.00 / 1) #4 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:11:59 AM EST
over the years sums it up thusly:

We are all little judgment machines, making judgments about everyone and everything all the time. And the judgments we make say more about us than what we're judging.

[ Parent ]
nice by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #5 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:13:05 AM EST
But needs to be followed with advice that suggests that doesn't mean the best thing is not to make judgements at all.

[ Parent ]
Oh, sorry. It is really kind of implied. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #9 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:22:00 AM EST
I mean, one can't stop being what one naturally is (a judgment machine), but it can be helpful to be aware of what one is. From there it's a matter of accepting the consequences of taking or leaving the behavior as one sees fit.

[ Parent ]
It's less to do with judgments... by toxicfur (4.00 / 4) #6 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:16:57 AM EST
and what people think of me. It's more about being a part of a community, and without any semiotic evidence that I'm a part of the community, I feel somewhat excluded. Among people I know, it's clear that I'm not hetero, but when these are just people on the street, there's only a microsecond of an opportunity to say, "hey, I'm a part of this group." It's complicated, to say the least, though the most important thing is that there's nobody I'd rather have been in P-town with than ana, regardless of how we appear to people who don't know us.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
At the risk of sounding mean, by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #10 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:26:55 AM EST
which is not my intention, it sounds like it's your problem, not "their" problem. But I'm working pretty much blind here.

And I'm still strategizing how to out-load you at a dishwasher.


[ Parent ]
Oh, it's absolutely my problem... by toxicfur (4.00 / 3) #11 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:28:44 AM EST
which is what I was trying to point out. I want to be a part of a community that I don't, on the surface, belong to. Even though I do. It's definitely my problem.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
With all due love and respect, your logic makes me by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #12 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:31:38 AM EST
dizzy.

[ Parent ]
It's like... by ana (4.00 / 4) #13 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:38:16 AM EST
a tribal identity kind of a thing, I think.

If I recall correctly, my question was provoked by a het couple in which the guy was being a bit too demonstrative of his affection.

I found P-town a remarkably comfortable place to be.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
Pffff! I'd have some fun commenting on that too. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #14 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:51:08 AM EST
Orientation be damned!

[ Parent ]
I get the same feeling as tf by iGrrrl (4.00 / 4) #20 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:25:08 AM EST
I get mistaken for a soccer mom, a granola hippie, and a Judy Collins wannabe.

Inside I'm a pansexual sneering punk with a mohawk.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
...and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter... by greyrat (4.00 / 1) #23 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:28:34 AM EST


[ Parent ]
Here's a side example: by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #15 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:07:49 AM EST
A college friend of mine got me turned on to road racing. For more than a decade after college, we'd go up to Road America in Wisconsin to spectate at a weekend event usually comprising a dozen races. In ten years, we got the logistics of trip down to a science: Duties were cleanly divided and well understood, and we worked in tandem to make all the mundane duties outside of watching races happen automatically. We looked like a married couple. In fact we were married -- but to women. And we both had two kids apiece. Now one year, we roll into our camping space just after sundown (it's a 12 hour drive) in my friends little white Miata, unpack our tiny backpack-style two man tent, crank up some kd lang (whom we both liked at the time -- hell, I still have a crush on her #SNIF#) and fire up the mini-stove and fire off the espresso machine (a fine stove top design bought specifically so my friend and his wife could use it on their gas stove at home as well as us using it when camping) so that we'd be awake enough to get the tent assembled in a sane manner. Now, you know what the "men" in the next space were thinking. Well, it took them until the next evening to come over and admit, "Yeah, well, were gonna come over and kick your gay asses, but we decided not to". We then spent the rest of the evening trading beers and talking about what we were all there for. Gay sexThree days of fast cars.

[ Parent ]
I get what you're trying to say... by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #18 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:18:47 AM EST
but I'm trying to say that being a part of a marked (and generally less-mainstream) community is different from what you're talking about. It's about group identity, as ana alluded to, and I really do think it's different for people who are straight, no matter how open-minded they are.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
Well, OK. I must be too much of a by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #21 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:27:07 AM EST
latte drinking, elitist intellectual leeberal. Because all I can say to that is: "Pffff! OK!"

But maybe I should make sure you never meet msrat, in case you decide to turn her and steal her from me...


[ Parent ]
No such thing as too much latte drinking, etc. ;-) by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #25 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:38:47 AM EST
No, I just get frustrated when people try to explain how I feel in terms of their own experiences. I get that you were trying to find common ground -- it's just that your ground is quite different from mine, in, granted, very subtle ways. I would never trade ana for anything in the world, but I sometimes miss being seen as queer by the world at large. (That's why I'm always really happy when panhandlers call me 'sir').

And not to worry about my stealing ms. rat -- straight women (or men) aren't my thing.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM

[ Parent ]
Well, it's OK. I love you anyway, sir. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #28 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:44:38 AM EST
As long as you don't steal msrat. She's really damn hot!


[ Parent ]
Oh, and also: by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #34 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:58:58 AM EST
If I'm trying to explain how you feel from my experiences, I'm TOTALLY OFF BASE. If I can make you feel OKer by being unconcerned (is that the right word?) about what you're uncomfortable with, then I'm on the right track.

[ Parent ]
Yep. by iGrrrl (4.00 / 1) #45 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 05:47:05 PM EST
If I'm trying to explain how you feel from my experiences, I'm TOTALLY OFF BASE.

Yes, you are totally off base, and yet, you were trying to explain it to her, which is a pretty sexist characteristic (and one I share). Seriously, read the That Guy thing. With the best of intentions you can hit buttons that, even if you don't have them, were validly installed by the very different experiences of people who are not you.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
I remain, as always, your humble servant... by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #47 Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:58:14 AM EST
Understanding the Universe within and around me is more dear than anything else.

[ Parent ]
Is some of this by garlic (2.00 / 0) #36 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:37:34 PM EST
a group size and power dynamic issue? Being a white middle to upper class hetero guy can make understanding other groups hard I think. Every one of those descriptors is privilidged to one extent or another.


[ Parent ]
That's not it by iGrrrl (4.00 / 1) #26 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:41:01 AM EST
You're privileged. Seriously. Even with the best of liberal, latte-drinking intentions, you're a straight white guy who hasn't the same experiences.

The Invisible Knapsack of white privilege

and

The straight version.

This is something I struggle with myself, seeing where I get to make assumptions based upon being white. I get to have the straight ones, even though I don't deserve them, and in fact, do my best to make sure that it's clear. In a work gathering the other day, the subject of M/F couples with the same names came up (Dale and Dale), and I mentioned that my ex-girlfriend Michelle settled down with a Michelle. It would be covering to simply fail to tell the story.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
I agree that I am inherently in a position of by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #33 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:00:17 AM EST
power, based on my race, gender and orientation. I would also point out that those two links give me the creeps. My response to a lot of the content is a dismayed and confused "people actually think this way?" Ick! That's not the world for me. But sadly, I can only make change  in the places that I am.

And another side story I just thought of: I have a friend who's a lesbian. she was bi in college but went "pure" lesbian after college. She married a gay man. They had a child, actually two now. A boy and a girl. They've been married for more than five years. She's still a lesbian. I used to try to point out that at the very least she's bi, and that she's always been bi. but she's quite sure she's a lesbian. So, I can only agree. She's a happily married lesbian with two children by her gay husband. And no, it's not an open marriage.


[ Parent ]
how people think by iGrrrl (4.00 / 1) #39 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:08:45 PM EST
"people actually think this way?"

It's not exactly by choice. It's the accumulation of experience.

Believe me, I lose credibility points for being female, despite degree and experience, and especially if I'm wearing a skirt.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
Oh, and... by iGrrrl (4.00 / 1) #40 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:14:27 PM EST
Don't be That Guy

This was written in response to the Open Source Boob Project mess, but it's a great primer on sexist behavior that everyone should read, even women, and especially men who don't think of themselves as sexist.

The important thing about it is that it hits things we're not aware of, or reframes behaviors from the other person's point of view. Believe me, women can be just as sexist to other women, and I found some eye-opening descriptions.

Every man should really, really read this.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
Sexist women by Merekat (4.00 / 1) #46 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:43:50 PM EST
I think the only people I have been on the receiving end of sexism in real life has been from gentlemen of advancing age, and other women.

The internet is another matter. People seem to think that the keyboard exempts them from proper behaviour.

[ Parent ]
but, i notice by LilFlightTest (2.00 / 0) #48 Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 04:01:07 PM EST
you don't do that anymore.
---------
if de-virgination results in me being able to birth hammerhead sharks, SIGN ME UP!!! --misslake
[ Parent ]
More's the pity by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #49 Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 03:29:47 AM EST
Nowadays, I need to concentrate more on being able to buy food.

[ Parent ]
Could you just wear a t-shirt that makes it clear? by Beechwood 45789 (4.00 / 5) #16 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:12:34 AM EST
It could say "Mostly Not Straight" or "It's Back to Women Right After This" or "Queerish, But Flexible."


[ Parent ]
there are not enough 4's... by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #17 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:15:29 AM EST
I took my Melissa Etheridge "Yes I Am" concert t-shirt with me, but it was sadly too chilly for short sleeves.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
You need.... by ana (4.00 / 4) #19 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:24:16 AM EST
a "more than one membership to more than one club" t-shirt.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
woo hoo! by garlic (2.00 / 0) #37 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:39:43 PM EST
I figured it out I think. I'm always so slow at this stuff.


[ Parent ]
Who? Who? I'm always clueless at this stuff. by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #38 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:06:51 PM EST


[ Parent ]
Prior commitment on the 12th by ad hoc (2.00 / 0) #3 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:10:50 AM EST
sorry. Also, can't do any Tuesdays. MWF are fine, though.
--
The three things that make a diamond also make a waffle.
Ah. by ana (2.00 / 0) #7 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:19:03 AM EST
Perhaps when the tufts contingent weighs in, we can try Wednesday then. Or Friday.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
I'd rather not do Monday. by toxicfur (4.00 / 1) #8 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:20:12 AM EST
But Wednesday or Friday would be fine.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
which email? by iGrrrl (2.00 / 0) #22 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:27:09 AM EST
 Thursday or Friday for me, I think.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

um by ana (2.00 / 0) #24 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:38:37 AM EST
the donut wheel inc one.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
Not there by iGrrrl (2.00 / 0) #27 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:41:40 AM EST

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
now? by ana (2.00 / 0) #31 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:52:14 AM EST

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
I thought everybody knew by gpig (2.00 / 0) #29 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:48:36 AM EST
that guinea pigs are vegetarian.

Seriously though, I should have mentioned it before shouldn't I ....

Other than being a veg I'm not fussy, so even if there are only one or two veg things on the menu, that's fine.

I can do any day next week.
---
(,   ,') -- eep

We could go round the corner by iGrrrl (2.00 / 0) #30 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:50:08 AM EST
There's a vegan Asian place that mostly tastes Vietnamese.

"Beautiful wine, talking of scattered everythings"
(and thanks to Scrymarch)

[ Parent ]
Here: by ana (2.00 / 0) #32 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:54:35 AM EST
Buddha's Delight.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
The legendary Buddha's Delight by gpig (4.00 / 1) #35 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:29:30 AM EST
Believe it or not I knew about that place long before I came to the US for the first time ....

Sounds like a plan!
---
(,   ,') -- eep

[ Parent ]
regrets by Kellnerin (4.00 / 1) #41 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:23:06 PM EST
My head is scheduled to implode right about Friday, the 13th of June, 12:30 p.m. You don't want to be around for it; it will probably be messy. Maybe another time.

--
"Late to the party" is the new "ahead of the curve" -- CRwM
Perhaps... by ana (4.00 / 1) #42 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:25:18 PM EST
if you stuff it full of cotton balls and peculiar ideas, that'll cushion the implosion.

We may lure mr. pig up from the cape again.

"And this ... is a piece of Synergy." --Kellnerin

[ Parent ]
Definitely sounds messy. by toxicfur (2.00 / 0) #43 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:26:17 PM EST
We should hang out soon. I'm scheduled to emerge from hibernation around the end of the month. Let me know what works for you.
--
To Rollins lesbians are like cuddly pandas: cute, exotic, forest-dwelling, dangerous when riled and unable to produce offspring without assistance.-CRwM
[ Parent ]
end of month by Kellnerin (4.00 / 1) #44 Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 04:30:02 PM EST
Sounds perfect.

--
"Late to the party" is the new "ahead of the curve" -- CRwM
[ Parent ]