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emacs/vim	11 votes - 91 %
Big fat-ass IDE	1 vote - 8 %

12 Total Votes

Hey Maestro, Can You Spare Me An IDE? | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Why I hate IDEs by ENOENT (6.00 / 2) #1 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:36:01 AM EST

Each one has its own perfect little universe in which everything works, but when it comes time to port the code to a new platform, or when you want to use a new IDE, or you want to share your code with somebody else, ALL HECK* BREAKS LOOSE.

* All swear words, profanity, and images of Janet Jackson's breast have been stripped from this comment by FCC censors.

Life is just one damned thing after another.
Love is just two damned things after each other.

: UBE Theory by cam (6.00 / 1) #4 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 05:45:09 AM EST

The unified build environment theory carries great weight IMO.
I was trying to join in one OSS project which was being compiled in VisualCafe IIRC, so I contributed some ant build scripts which I had made up so I could build the project. The main contributor continued to use VisualCafe and the build scripts were out of sync within a fortnight.
On another project that I had been contibuting on, the build environment went from ant to an alpha build of maven. I couldnt get maven to work, so stop doing the nightly builds of it and only checked the project out once a month or so.
Having a universal build environment lowers the barriers of entry for outsiders/developers, and also commoditizes the build process. Important as IDEs can be completely arbitrary when it comes to building a project. It can work on one IDE and not in another.
That is one reason why the server's continuous integration scripts are GOD. They have the final say in any project and the developers have to make sure that what they check-in, test and build locally on their machine passes the GOD CI process.
cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

IDEs by ucblockhead

(6.00 / 1) #2 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 04:50:19 AM EST

My problem with IDEs isn't the theory but merely that I've yet to see one that actually worked.

They typically come with shitty editors and often (at least in the case of Visual Studio) force you to use make systems that are atrocious.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman

: Plus by ad hoc (6.00 / 3) #3 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 05:31:50 AM EST

they never put the braces where god intended them to be.
--

Plz note the new e-mail, kthx
[ Parent ]

Minor correction: by MohammedNiyalSayeed (6.00 / 1) #5 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 06:41:56 AM EST

"... flame war between the emacs/vim people ..."

Emacs users aren't people, technically. Also, this:

"A sophisticated emacs user"

cracks me the fuck up. "Sophisticated emacs user," indeed....

This has been a message from the Holy Order of Vi(m), and as such, is wholly endorsed by all the Holy Knights of the Visual Editor.

Sorry, can't resist.

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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.

dude, by MillMan

(6.00 / 2) #6 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 07:05:23 AM EST

you use an eye candy OS.
This may be the first class war in history where the victims will die laughing.
[ Parent ]

Playa hatin' is ugly by MohammedNiyalSayeed (6.00 / 1) #12 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:01:38 AM EST

Spend the cash and join the elite today, and get 30% off! You know you want to, you iPod-sportin' bastard. Just come out of the closet like the rest of us; you'll be glad you did.

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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]

well you never know. by MillMan

(6.00 / 2) #14 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:33:56 AM EST

I hate apple and wintel for different reasons. The prices on apple iBooks and powerbooks vs. laptops have not gone unnoticed. For now though, I like my thinkpad, and I won't be upgrading for 16 months or so.

Really, the big problem with buying an apple computer is that my journey to total yuppiedom will be complete. Next I'll be buying a fucking Jetta or Passat. It has taken me long enough to get my self respect back just from buying the ipod.

Also, playa hatin' is just honesty.
This may be the first class war in history where the victims will die laughing.
[ Parent ]

I used to drive a Toyota Camry by MohammedNiyalSayeed (3.00 / 0) #15 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 11:10:20 AM EST

And now I drive nothing.

Though I did test drive a Mini Cooper recently, and expect to be driving soon enough, I won't likely get a Passat, unless it's the Passat wagon, and even that, only if I can't get an early 90's Volvo V70 XC-AWD.

Gotta keep it real! And represent! YUPPIE POWERS, FORM OF A VOLVO DRIVIN' MAN

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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]

You move to the 'burbs by cam (6.00 / 1) #16 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 11:19:00 AM EST

and are too concerned about global warming for an SUV, but need something more for the snow days which rules out a Jetta or anything else - yet you need the strength of a Mercedes and the reliability of 1962 Holden .... there is but one choice.

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

Ah. by yicky yacky (4.00 / 2) #21 Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 12:28:02 AM EST

I used to drive a Toyota Camry. And now I drive nothing.

The Apple TCO strikes again ...

----
Vacuity abhors a vacuum.
[ Parent ]

: Id give you a six by cam (3.00 / 3) #22 Wed Dec 01, 2004 at 12:44:49 AM EST

but we have all been turned into garlic.
cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

Emacs Eroticism by cam (6.00 / 4) #10 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 07:56:47 AM EST

A cheesburgered narrative on the teaching qualities of vim and emacs.

The teacher slinked into the classroom in her high heels and leather miniskirt, bending over to exposed a full bosom, when a voice piped up from the rear of the computing class,

"The : key on this computer is all used up ..."

The teacher sighed with a fullsome heave of her breast, "In that case, " she said "use emacs instead."

The was a round of "woohoos" in the classroom - but I wasnt noticing the source code being written by the other students - I was too busy fapping to the erotic letter the teacher had written only an hour before. But that is a story to be told another time ....

cam
Freedom, liberty, equity and an Australian Republic
[ Parent ]

: If you'll excuse me for a moment... by MohammedNiyalSayeed (6.00 / 2) #13 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:03:23 AM EST

I'll be right back.

:wq!

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You can build the most elegant fountain in the world, but eventually a winged rat will be using it as a drinking bowl.
[ Parent ]

Kdevelop by i (6.00 / 1) #7 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 07:21:15 AM EST

can use vim as its editor component (embedded). If only the rest of this monstrosity could somehow manage to work...

: And there lies the problem by ucblockhead (6.00 / 1) #8 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 07:52:51 AM EST

Lots of IDEs get some things right. None of them get all things right.
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[ucblockhead is] useless and subhuman
[ Parent ]

vim? Pussies! Use vi instead. by greyrat (4.00 / 1) #9 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 07:55:14 AM EST

Oh, I remember the days of having a dozen buffers open in vi and cutting, pasting and coding between them. A virtual olympics for the fingers and the brain!

Refactoring by sien (6.00 / 1) #11 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 10:00:05 AM EST

Have you seen the refactoring support and other tricks that you can do with intelliJ? Can you set up emacs with code completion?

I've been switching in between Visual Studio and emacs for a while. Visual Studio with Visual Assist is like crack. Eclipse will get there in a year or two and is already an impressive IDE.

I find it hard to imagine setting up a computer without some kind of IDE and emacs. Ctrl-K is burned into my brain at a scarily deep level.

Nobody knows anything - William Goldman.

: refactoring in Emacs by martingale (6.00 / 1) #19 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 03:54:47 PM EST

I could be off on the timeline, but I believe Emacs had refactoring for C and Java long before any of the IDEs. Also, check out the moo completion.
--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$
[ Parent ]

I am not sure what to make by Evil Cloaked User (6.00 / 1) #17 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 12:54:29 PM EST

Of the fact that when I saw IDE, I immediately thought "Well, it's not like SCSI is really that much better, given the price differential, and who the fuck is actually going to need 10 gigabit fibre channel?"

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Still, I think most of the problem is just a mental hurdle to overcome, - Cloaked User

hardware geek reading software geekery by infinitera (6.00 / 1) #18 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 01:46:27 PM EST

wrong context

Cause effect and not with I'm good very. - Rogerborg
[ Parent ]

: No really. by Evil Cloaked User (3.00 / 0) #20 Tue Nov 30, 2004 at 08:30:52 PM EST

I worked in storage in a former life, but doing software and firmware. Just came across a lot of disk terminology.

--
Still, I think most of the problem is just a mental hurdle to overcome, - Cloaked User
[ Parent ]

Hey Maestro, Can You Spare Me An IDE? | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback


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