Hulver's site || What should sven do?

What should sven do?

Get out now!	1 vote - 9 %
Hang around, but refuse the tech lead position.	5 votes - 45 %
Accept the tech lead position.	0 votes - 0 %
Accept the tech lead position, but only with a pay rise or other conditions. (Comment!)	5 votes - 45 %

11 Total Votes

Trouble | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

Hello by werty (4.50 / 2) #1 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 10:37:26 PM EST

It's my last day at work

-- yadayaydyayadya

Lucky bastard by sven (3.00 / 0) #2 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 10:47:01 PM EST

PS your sig is fucking annoying.

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

I turned on images to check by Rogerborg (3.00 / 0) #5 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 11:14:20 PM EST

And it is, rather. I think 100 pixels in height is about the limit welcomed in polite society.

-
Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.
[ Parent ]

oh haha! by werty (6.00 / 1) #7 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 11:16:37 PM EST

Coming from the guy, with the most annoying sig picture!
You shall NOT hypnotise me
You shall NOT hypnotise me

-- yadayaydyayadya
[ Parent ]

Eh by Gedvondur

(6.00 / 1) #19 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 01:59:45 AM EST

Neither of them are that bad.

Gedvondur

[ Parent ]

You've obviously by werty (6.00 / 1) #20 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 02:19:06 AM EST

too accostomed to the evil rogerborglet to let it bother you now.

p.s. Yours is 'orrible

-- yadayaydyayadya
[ Parent ]

: heh yes by Gedvondur (6.00 / 1) #22 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 04:12:09 AM EST

it is indeed. I cut out of a full page ad.
Gedvondur

[ Parent ]

Don't worry by werty (3.00 / 0) #6 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 11:15:34 PM EST

Is not a sig.

I just thought I should post it!

-- yadayaydyayadya
[ Parent ]

If you want to improve your technical skills by nebbish (6.00 / 1) #3 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 10:51:28 PM EST

Then you need to go for a techy job. Don't get sidetracked. I got sidetracked years ago and ended up behind so I didn't have the skills to get back in.

--------
It's political correctness gone mad!

: Good thoughts by sven (6.00 / 1) #10 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:02:16 AM EST

I'd hate to end up in a management job in ten years time, regretting that I didn't fully develop my technical skills when I had that chance. I guess once you've gone down that path it's difficult to go back.

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

Demand the money and beer and hookers by Rogerborg (5.00 / 1) #4 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 11:09:46 PM EST

Then shirk the work. They'll respect you more for it.

-
Metus amatores matrum compescit, non clementia.

Easy one! by random (6.00 / 1) #8 Thu Oct 21, 2004 at 11:18:50 PM EST

Decide how much money would make you happy while doing this role. Avoid being "realistic" or considering the "market conditions".
When asked, say it's more responsibility, more work, and moves your career in a direction you don't want to go. However, you will consider it if there's a significant pay rise involved (DO NOT MENTION ANY FIGURE).
Wait until an offer appears. If the offer involves your monthly income going up to the figure in step 1, accept.
If the offer does not result in an immediate increase in income, refuse. Remember that if they offer you a "bonus" based reward system, it will come with conditions attached which will enable them not to pay it to you. Even if there are no conditions, these will be attached later and you'll never get it. Ask anyone here, bonus' rarely happen.

Forget anything else. This is a simple negotiation where both parties are roughly equal, and perhaps you're in the stronger position.

Good luck. May the suitcase full of cash be with you.

MMMmmmmm, bonuses by Cloaked User (3.00 / 0) #9 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:00:17 AM EST

That reminds me - time to finish off that "Where's my fucking bonus then?" email...

--
This is not a psychotic episode. It is a cleansing moment of clarity.
[ Parent ]

I thought it was a good attitude bonus. by ambrosen (3.00 / 0) #15 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:27:23 AM EST

Or am I confusing you with someone else. Remember, there's never any need to stop writing an email halfway through except if you actually do get interrupted.

[ Parent ]

: Not exactly by Cloaked User (3.00 / 0) #16 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 01:12:35 AM EST

The bonus as a whole was for working like fucking dogs to get the site live on time, although one of the various conditions involved demonstrating enthusiasm, teamwork, etc
This particular part of the bonus was for making one particular internal deadline a month and a half ago, and was supposed to have been paid in this month's pay. Well, I've had my payslip, so where's my money?

--
This is not a psychotic episode. It is a cleansing moment of clarity.
[ Parent ]

An excellent pragmatic approach by sven (3.00 / 0) #12 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:08:06 AM EST

I would either end up with a significant pay rise which would come in handy for paying off the mortgage, or I'd continue what I'm already doing. I can't lose! I like those odds.

Good advice regarding bonuses. The nature of the project would make it unlikely that I could ever meet any performance targets anyway, so it would ultimately be a Bad Thing.

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

: However... by random (3.00 / 0) #13 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:18:32 AM EST

... see creo's post below.
But since you're not hugely technically experienced yet, I'd stick with the above for a few more years.

[ Parent ]

I would be tempted by creo (6.00 / 1) #11 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:04:53 AM EST

For the simple reason that programming jobs are going to foreign shores and some 'lead' experience looks good on the resume.

I have had conflicting advice WRT this over the years. People who move full time into management say 'never lose your tech skills'. The simple thing is though that having a lead role on your resume generally makes you far more marketable.

I would propose to management that you take the role strictly on a temporary basis until completion of the project. Then you could evaluate what you want to do. If you can work extra cash into it then so much the better.

I should do it for the good of the project. There's nobody else who can do it.
This is never a good reason for you to accept. If you do it for this reason you signal that you are a company bumboy - never make that mistake. Do it for your reasons and only your reasons, not theirs.

My current consulting role is kind of a do everything from client liason, specs writing code & test - basically everything. Having had some project lead experience in the past has helped - if you want lo land that big fat consultancy gig in the future then generally you have to have some lead or management experience. Pure guru tech gigs are pretty rare thesedays - unless you speak with an Indian accent.

I wanted the tech guru thing, but basically I'm not a good enough developer. I fit very much into the journeyman category - competent, but not brilliant. Originally this was hard for me to accept, but since I have my code has actually got better. You have to be extremely good if you aspire to the tech god status.

JMV YMMV.

Cheers
Creo.

"I shall do what I believe to be right and honourable" - Guderian

Temporary basis by sven (6.00 / 1) #17 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 01:17:54 AM EST

This is certainly worth considering. Being more marketable is a good thing, but if I went into it without a pay rise I would probably end up resenting it before long. Perhaps this is justification for a more modest rise than that required for random's solution. I'll think about it over the weekend, and discuss with friends and fiancée.

There is also a danger that problems at the project level could make it a very negative experience for me. It's seemed in the past that when things go to shit, the tech leads are the ones who put in the most effort to dig the project out. Success is by no means assured.

I wanted the tech guru thing, but basically I'm not a good enough developer... You have to be extremely good if you aspire to the tech god status.

I am quite good, but whether I'm good enough remains to be seen. I'd like to find out one way or the other. If I don't fulfill my potential in the technical stream before moving permanently onto other things then I'll certainly regret it. But that wouldn't prevent me from giving the tech lead role a go temporarily.

Thanks for all your thoughts, I value your opinion.

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

In my experience by Cloaked User (6.00 / 1) #21 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 02:20:34 AM EST

It's seemed in the past that when things go to shit, the tech leads are the ones who put in the most effort to dig the project out.

That's generally the case. For me, it's been due to some or all of the following:

you have overall responsibility for the technical delivery of the project, so in the absence of someone to delegate to, you're It
you have the best overall grasp of the project, and so are often best placed to pick up a problem in any given area, should the original programmer(s) be unavailable for some reason
generally (and this does vary) the tech lead is also one of the most experienced programmers on the project, and is the natural choice when something needs to be done Right Fucking Now
speaking personally, I'm a mug, and too dedicated for my own good, once the pressure mounts

That said, tech leading a project does generally involve much more management than development in my experience. I think at the moment that my ideal mix would be to spend some time doing the more managerial aspect of it, but at the same time remaining hands-on technical. In one respect that's a good thing about where I work, as we're small enough that people rarely get pigeon-holed into a role, except by coincidence. Thus, we have no dedicated tech leads, and all being capable, tech lead for any given project tends to go to whoever's available at the time.

--
This is not a psychotic episode. It is a cleansing moment of clarity.
[ Parent ]

It's a good reason by squigs (5.00 / 2) #14 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 12:20:03 AM EST

The tech lead position would limit my ability to develop technically, and instead improve my domain knowledge (useless once the project finishes)

I think this sounds like a perfectly valid argument to use if they do try to convince you.

: True by sven (3.00 / 0) #18 Fri Oct 22, 2004 at 01:23:45 AM EST

The counter-argument is that a temporary tech lead assignment would look good on my resumé, and I could return to the technical stream once the project is finished. That argument makes a bit of sense as long as the project doesn't take too long to finish. Since it's already gone three years longer than originally planned, you wouldn't think it could go much longer. Or could it?

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

good luck by Sesh (6.00 / 1) #23 Mon Oct 25, 2004 at 01:11:09 PM EST

I think you may be underestimating your re-employability. I was pretty glad to be out of that place, and D seems pretty stoked as well. I guess the only thing holding you back is the mortgage/security?

I also agree with creo about the 'doing it for the company' line. They've never done anything to earn your loyalty. Monthly BBQ's where you have to buy your own beer don't count as incentive. Birthdays where you have to bring your own cake aren't generous. And they sure as hell don't offer anything in the way of monetary compensation. I did like the three-weekly massages though, but that was an OH&S thing.

: Loyalty by sven (3.00 / 0) #24 Tue Oct 26, 2004 at 03:05:17 PM EST

They've never done anything to earn your loyalty. Monthly BBQ's where you have to buy your own beer don't count as incentive. Birthdays where you have to bring your own cake aren't generous. And they sure as hell don't offer anything in the way of monetary compensation. I did like the three-weekly massages though, but that was an OH&S thing.
The massages have now been stopped due to cost. I also liked the French lessons that we had for a while. They've been stopped too.
My professional development discussion has been brought forward to Friday, and we're going to discuss the tech lead position there. My thinking at this stage is that the tech lead position has advantages and disadvantages, and in the short term isn't much benefit or impediment to my career. Since it sounds like less fun, I'll demand more money. If they play ball I'll accept, otherwise they can find someone else.
If only HR understood that they could buy employee loyalty, and that it would be a good investment for the company. Imagine!

--
harshbutfair // you know it makes sense
[ Parent ]

Trouble | 24 comments (24 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback


Make a new account
Username:
Password: