Hulver's site || Comments || God.

I disagree by ReallyEvilCanine (2.00 / 0) #1 Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:10:12 AM EST

I'm not getting pulled into some metaphysical discussion here but as to your examples,

paper-as-money, law-as-control, might-as-right

the first two are by public agreement / social contract and the third is how nature works. In civilising ourselves (laugh if you must), we found greater benefits in moving away from number three and adopting number two, but that was only around 800 years ago. It also didn't apply to everyone, only the lords who themselves exercised might-as-right for a few hundred more years.

An agreement by blixco (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:13:13 AM EST

based on...? What disadvantage does ignoring that social contract have?
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
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Lots by Herring (4.00 / 1) #3 Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:23:48 AM EST

My personal view is that religion was created to reflect society rather than the other way around. Nowhere in the bible does is suggest that prior to Moses bringing the tablets down the mountain, the Israelites thought that murder and theft were just fine and dandy.

In animal societies social codes are observeable. I don't think that anyone would argue that monkeys have a religion and yet a group will punish habitual theft etc.

I'm English, and as such I crave disappointment. - Bill Bailey
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: "Nowhere in the bible does is suggest . . . by Christopher Robin was Murdered (4.00 / 2) #6 Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 10:57:11 AM EST

That prior to Moses bringing the tablets down the mountain, the Israelites thought that murder and theft were just fine and dandy."
Actually, there's plenty in that book to suggest that prior to and for a long time after the tablets were delivered the Israelites thought that murder and theft were just fine and dandy, depending on who you murdered or stole from.

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: But, by blixco (2.00 / 0) #7 Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 11:02:05 AM EST

what monkeys chose to call their behavior, and what name we have given to ours, is different.
God is what our forefathers used to glue those binding terms to our nascent society. In God We Trust.
You may choose to not believe, just as I may choose to not believe in the illusion that is money, or law. If I break the law, the only immediate punitive effect is: nothing.
Until someone calls it a crime, it isn't.
That social contract is as illusory as any belief system. And animals may be hardwired to kill or not kill one another based on their social constructs, but our language gives us a name (or selection of names) for it.
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"You bring the weasel, I'll bring the whiskey." - kellnerin
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