Bureaucracy killed Socialism. by wiredog (4.00 / 4) #6 Thu May 17, 2007 at 08:49:10 AM EST
First, vs2fp. I'd like to see this at, say, K5, but it'd probably die in the queue there.

"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.
I think that people, in the West, have decided that the form of Capitalism we have is the "best obtainable system". Note: obtainable. This is an imperfect world, after all. I think you can say of Capitalism what Churchill said of Democracy.

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy: In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. In all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.

Thus, the organization which may once have been intended to further the goals of, say, securing for the workers the full fruits of their industry eventually morphs into an organization whose goal is self-preservation.

Apply that to state ownership of the means of production and you get, Rover, Triumph, Jaguar, and other State owned industries driven right into the ground by the State. The workers are now unemployed, the corporations are either moribund or owned by Americans or Chinese. That's what Socialism (in the Real World, rather than in theory) led to.

The voters saw this, and voted accordingly.

Earth First!
(We can strip mine the rest later.)



Don't think by jump the ladder (4.00 / 2) #7 Thu May 17, 2007 at 09:36:23 AM EST
British Leyland/Austin-Rover/MG Rover is a good example of state socialism. It was nationalised in 1975 because it was bankrupt due to poor sales and strikes and the govt didn't fancy a few hundred people out of work all at once. Wasn't a particularly ideological move.

It was nationalised from 1975-1987. Its long term problems occurred mostly under private sector ownership. Basically it never made enough profit to invest in competitive new models from one product cycle to next from late 1960s onwards and had a poor reputation for workmanship and reliability which it never sucesfully shook off.

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