Hulver's site || Comments || Insane

Missing the point. by em (5.00 / 1) #38 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:07:17 AM EST

I can vouch for you, that many Haitians definitely do not have any problem with killing their fellow Haitians.

But not if the victim's being Haitian is appealed to as motive and/or justification for killing them. Which is the point.

It's one thing to kill a specific Haitian guy because he flirted with your girlfriend. It is another to kill random Haitians because they are immigrants perceived to be in general criminals, and whose victimization is widely tolerated by USian institutions and culture.

And before you say "it's a game, no actual Haitians have been physically harmed", my complaint is that the game feeds off the cultural environment that tolerates such victimization. The game creators did not create this cultural environment, but they are exploiting it to their advantage. Which I think is inmoral.

--em
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I don't think I am. by ti dave (3.00 / 1) #40 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:24:54 AM EST

Hey, I saw a Haitian woman stab another with a 12" butcher knife, over possession of a [1] bouillon cube.

I think Haitians are a special case.

I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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You are USian, right? by em (3.00 / 1) #42 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:42:15 AM EST

Pot. Kettle. Black.

--em
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Wow! by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #45 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:50:59 AM EST

Straight to the ad hominem?

You could have toyed with me a bit longer. The adrenaline would've marinated my flesh.

I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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That's not an ad hominem. by em (5.00 / 1) #46 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:00:26 AM EST

You cite an anecdotal instance of a Haitian committing a gruesome act of violence for really small motive. If we're going to cite such things, your country's inhabitants are notorious for that sort of thing. (The US, land of serial killers, teenagers who shoot up a bunch of people in schools, stockbrokers going postal in a McDonalds, etc.) I don't see how Haitians are "special" in this regard.

And all of this is independent of any fact about you personally.

--em
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: You mis-understand. by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #49 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:06:37 AM EST

I'm an American who takes his citizenship seriously and quite personally.
That said, yes, I know that we're all capable of senseless violence.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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Just to make sure I don't misunderstand you. by em (5.00 / 1) #48 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:05:49 AM EST

Are we talking of a context where a single cube of chicken bouillon would be a significant possession? (I have in mind Haitian communities in the US, not rural Haiti...)

--em
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Neither, but quite significant. by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #50 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:10:32 AM EST

It was in downtown Port-au-Prince.

I wouldn't proffer a single incident to *prove* my point, but I saw enough really incredulous acts of violence to convince me that the general populace needs some serious therapy.

I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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Ah. by em (5.00 / 2) #51 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:16:43 AM EST

I took you as making the argument that Haitians are particularly violent, as exemplified by this gruesome act of presumably senseless, unmotivated violence. Yes, it is hard for us developed-worlders to imagine a single bouillon cube as a reasonable motive for murder, and I'm not exempt.

--em
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: They wear their emotions on their sleeves. by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #56 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:51:20 AM EST

It's hard to explain, but the entire place is like a high-school drama club.
I chalk it up to cultural differences.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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I disagree by codemonkey uk (3.00 / 0) #43 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:43:09 AM EST

Haitians are not a special case, either in the game, or in real life.

--- Thad ---
developer of ... ?
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It's the poorest, most destitute... by ti dave (4.00 / 1) #44 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 12:47:43 AM EST

country in this hemisphere.

I think it deserves that classification simply on the merits of that fact.

Desperate times make desperate men.

I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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Now I'm gonna vent a bit: by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #47 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:03:16 AM EST

You know what really pisses me off about that place?

Here's the deal:

There are a handful of people living there, who could buy you and I several times over.
I'm talking filthy rich.

They didn't even have the decency to earn their millions by being good Capitalists, they did it by being corrupt Mo-Fo's.

I'm talking about squeezing every last fucking nickel of graft, that was there to be had.

I'm probably the last guy around here to advocate State Socialism, but if any place on the planet needs it, it's Haiti.

That entire island really chaps my ass.

I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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re: That entire island really chaps my ass. by codemonkey uk (3.00 / 0) #52 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:22:48 AM EST

That's an unfortunate mental image.

--- Thad ---
developer of ... ?
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: Ass balm was a low shipping priority. by ti dave (5.00 / 1) #55 Mon Jan 05, 2004 at 01:48:03 AM EST

Basically, I had to suffer in silence for 6 months.
I don't care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do.
The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it. --W.S. Burroughs
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